The Truth about greenerrr and the NFL

I'm goint to start off by saying i absolutely hate playing greenerrr and we have got into many arguments i have no reason to defend him and i playing him annoys the hell out of me, but he plays just as sim as anyone so im going to list why.

1.The Rule where you cannot run 20% of the same type of plays need to be redone this should not be held into standard run plays ie. Iso's, power Os,and counters

2.If a guy wants to run the ball 25+ plays a game its absurd to make him count 5 Iso's, 5 counters, 5 sweeps, 5 draws and 5 counters. Look at it this way if a guy did 15 passes and 25 runs he would not be allowed to run 8 out of 25 of the same type runs, my favorite runs are power Os so in my case that means 8 power Os and 17 other type of meaningless runs ie. tosses and counters.

3. In the real NFL in which we are trying to emulate, teams run certain types of runs alot. The Colts for instance run 70%+ Strech plays when they run the jets,steelers,and ravens i would say 75%+ plus of the runs are slams and power Os, the chargers run mostly power Os and Denver was famous for there zone block runs.

4.The reality of it all mostly everyone breaks the run play rule i can honestly admit most of my runs are Iso's and power Os a god 70 percent i have 1 stretch play in my playbook i rarely run tosses, and counters and especially misdirectons plays dont really work in madden, well there are a few counter plays that work but they are not in my playbook.

5.to call someone out because 25% not 20% of the plays are dives or power Os is a little petty in my opinion that literally 1-2 plays over the limit.

6.The real problem is the fall forward animation since we can't police how many times you can fall forward in a game theres nothing to be done here

7. I have no exact # on this just a guess but lets say Greenerrr passes 10 times a game on AVERAGE, I can name plenty of guys who run the ball 10 or fewer times on AVERAGE!

8. What if you have a power back u mean to tell me i have to run tosses and counters with peyton hillis to not break the threshold?

9. Greenerrr strategy is legit strategy he run the ball work the clock and play D this is a very popular strategy by many teams i honesty hate the fact my ravens milk the clock when winning insted of keep tryin to score but thats there style same as greenerrr's

In closing i know everyone won't agree with me but its just my opinion. If u wanna get mad that greenerrr sends 30 messages after losing im with you, if you wanna get mad that greenerrr writes in ALL CAPS to often im with you, but i can't see how u can hang a person for running 2 to many powers Os or dives.

Great job on becoming the second gayest person in the MG..lol

i know ima catch heat for this post but its just my opinion just like the guys who disagree with greenerrr style of play

Child_Please4285 wrote:I'm goint to start off by saying i absolutely hate playing greenerrr and we have got into many arguments i have no reason to defend him and i playing him annoys the hell out of me, but he plays just as sim as anyone so im going to list why.

1.The Rule where you cannot run 20% of the same type of plays need to be redone this should not be held into standard run plays ie. Iso's, power Os,and counters

2.If a guy wants to run the ball 25+ plays a game its absurd to make him count 5 Iso's, 5 counters, 5 sweeps, 5 draws and 5 counters. Look at it this way if a guy did 15 passes and 25 runs he would not be allowed to run 8 out of 25 of the same type runs, my favorite runs are power Os so in my case that means 8 power Os and 17 other type of meaningless runs ie. tosses and counters.

3. In the real NFL in which we are trying to emulate, teams run certain types of runs alot. The Colts for instance run 70%+ Strech plays when they run the jets,steelers,and ravens i would say 75%+ plus of the runs are slams and power Os, the chargers run mostly power Os and Denver was famous for there zone block runs.

4.The reality of it all mostly everyone breaks the run play rule i can honestly admit most of my runs are Iso's and power Os a god 70 percent i have 1 stretch play in my playbook i rarely run tosses, and counters and especially misdirectons plays dont really work in madden, well there are a few counter plays that work but they are not in my playbook.

5.to call someone out because 25% not 20% of the plays are dives or power Os is a little petty in my opinion that literally 1-2 plays over the limit.

6.The real problem is the fall forward animation since we can't police how many times you can fall forward in a game theres nothing to be done here

7. I have no exact # on this just a guess but lets say Greenerrr passes 10 times a game on AVERAGE, I can name plenty of guys who run the ball 10 or fewer times on AVERAGE!

8. What if you have a power back u mean to tell me i have to run tosses and counters with peyton hillis to not break the threshold?

9. Greenerrr strategy is legit strategy he run the ball work the clock and play D this is a very popular strategy by many teams i honesty hate the fact my ravens milk the clock when winning insted of keep tryin to score but thats there style same as greenerrr's

In closing i know everyone won't agree with me but its just my opinion. If u wanna get mad that greenerrr sends 30 messages after losing im with you, if you wanna get mad that greenerrr writes in ALL CAPS to often im with you, but i can't see how u can hang a person for running 2 to many powers Os or dives.

+1

Ok, I've had my differences with both Greener and CP. In fact, I am still furious at the bullshit that Greener pulled on me in our last game, and the fact that he refuses to see that it's bullshit. But I'm going to agree with almost everything that CP wrote here. I would never want to limit inside runs, because it's the staple of the NFL. If a team could run inside every time and succeed, they would. The only type of run that should be subject to the 20% rule, in my opinion, is pitches.

However, that doesn't mean I think Greener plays sim. He's probably one of the least sim people I know, and the reason for that is the no-huddle to run. That's a strategy you'd never see in the NFL. If he only no-huddled in clock-saving situations, I'd have no problems with his play.

phantomshark wrote:Ok, I've had my differences with both Greener and CP. In fact, I am still furious at the bullshit that Greener pulled on me in our last game, and the fact that he refuses to see that it's bullshit. But I'm going to agree with almost everything that CP wrote here. I would never want to limit inside runs, because it's the staple of the NFL. If a team could run inside every time and succeed, they would. The only type of run that should be subject to the 20% rule, in my opinion, is pitches.

However, that doesn't mean I think Greener plays sim. He's probably one of the least sim people I know, and the reason for that is the no-huddle to run. That's a strategy you'd never see in the NFL. If he only no-huddled in clock-saving situations, I'd have no problems with his play.

I agree running no huddle runs are a little gay and its something you never see on Sundays! inless it a hurry up qb sneak on 3rd or 4th and inches i do see that alot.

we are trying to simulate a current NFL game since we use current rosters, not what they did in the 1940's. we are trying to simulate what is a real run-pass % in the NFL, not what greeners opinion of it is. more facts:

this graph charts the number of runs and passes per game by year. we need to look at it on a per game basis because the number of games in a season has changed over the years.



you can see that the proportion of passes declines following the '60s in response to the decline in efficiency. then there is a jump in the proportion of passes following the 1978 rules changes. it took several years for the balance to fully shift. there was a lag as coaches realized the new potency of passing.

in 1984, passes represented 54% of all plays. by 2009, the proportion of passes climbed only to 56%. that's a relatively meager increase, barely above the noise of random year-to-year variation.

The way modern defensive schemes are constructed, defenses are unable to shift toward stopping passes more effectively. Whatever the reason, defenses appear either unable or unwilling to adapt.

if this is true, there is little doubt that offenses should take better advantage of the current imbalance by passing more often, specifically on first and second down outside the red zone. offenses should force defenses to respect the pass more and more until they respond, thus allowing runs to become more productive. if defenses are unable to respond, it's possible that passing in certain situations has become a 'dominant strategy.' in game theory terms, this would mean it never makes sense to run. i doubt this is the case, but if defenses are truly inelastic, that's what it would mean.

thats modern football...in madden we can only play within the limitations of the animation engines. so the ultimate goal is to replicate what we see in the modern game, until i see a team run 85% of the time i'm not going to listen to any excuse you can come up with for greeners unrealistic gameplay. since he refuses to adapt to a realistic style of NFL game calling, i see no point in wasting an hour of my time playing someone who isn't making an effort to do what everyone else in MG is expected to.

**since unitas, the NFL-Winning-Formula is to build a lead with efficient passing, and run down the clock after.

the same is true with efficient defenses, if you stop the pass you win, if you stop the run, it does not matter*.

* = ONLY the ravens 2000 team won with that style, but then again, dilfer was also highly efficient in the post season ...

Be a little fair here, FF. I don't plan on playing Greener any more either, unless something changes, but unless you are going to police the other end (teams that pass 90% of the time, I just played a team that was averaging less than 15 yards rushing per game), I can't get on the run/pass split too hard. I think that if Greener stopped the gay no-huddle bullshit, he'd be forced to pass at least a little more, as he wouldn't get the unrealistic fatigue effects he is now getting. and that would probably stop all the complaining.

I'd like to propose a rule that no-huddle be limited to the last 2 minutes of the 1st half, and the last 4 minutes of the game (when down by 9 or more points) or 2 minutes of the game (when down 8 or less). I think that would solve everything.

the pass heavy teams are still calling a larger variety of plays and playing closer to the realm of an NFL game (although i agree about some people needing to run more). its not totally unfathomable to see drew brees throw 55-60 passes a game, but even a run heavy team like the falcons and jets still hover around the 50-50 mark.

Great Post FF i love charts for some strange reason lol. But anyways only one problem i have with this chart is that it represents the whole league and not a certain team. Teams play with different styles so obviously theres teams that above and below this ratio Bascally its about 35 pass / 27 run in todays NFL but there are teams that run more than pass so lets say they are around the 35/25 range run vs pass. In most lg gms i dont run 50 playsdue to the time difference more like 35 if im running the ball a fair amount of times so a 25/10 ratio of run vs pass in a lg game isn't that far below the average for a running team. Now i know greenerrr has had games where he is closer to 4-5 passes a game but thats not every game. Just like in the NFL there are games where the QB throws 12 passes in madden with the shortened game that equates to 7-8 passes a game so a 4-5 pass game still isn't that far below a running teams average

I bet if play action wasn't so broken greenerrr would pass alot more as well. In reality the a PA on a running team like greenerrr would be deadly in madden not really that much

I bet if play action wasn't so broken greenerrr would pass alot more as well. In reality the a PA on a running team like greenerrr would be deadly in madden not really that much

Child_Please4285 wrote:Great Post FF i love charts for some strange reason lol. But anyways only one problem i have with this chart is that it represents the whole league and not a certain team. Teams play with different styles so obviously theres teams that above and below this ratio Bascally its about 35 pass / 27 run in todays NFL but there are teams that run more than pass so lets say they are around the 35/25 range run vs pass. In most lg gms i dont run 50 playsdue to the time difference more like 35 if im running the ball a fair amount of times so a 25/10 ratio of run vs pass in a lg game isn't that far below the average for a running team. Now i know greenerrr has had games where he is closer to 4-5 passes a game but thats not every game. Just like in the NFL there are games where the QB throws 12 passes in madden with the shortened game that equates to 7-8 passes a game so a 4-5 pass game still isn't that far below a running teams average

yeah i agree, its hard to compare with not as many plays being ran...i was just trying to demonstrate the run-pass % in the modern game...something we all should be striving to replicate. even the most run heavy team in todays gm doesn't run it 75% of the time...for instance in greeners leagues these are his averages (sorry too tired or i'd do a pie chart lol)

CHZ league greener averages: PASS - 19.3% RUN - 81%
Deathwish league greener avg: PASS - 16% RUN - 84%

those the only teams in XFL im not going through each gm in greener 1 to find the rest...but i'm sure its relative. point is, when compared to the NFL theres nothing sim or realistic about a team that runs 80% of the time.

*he does run a playaction play and subs in his RB at FB like no one will notice, i don't see any NFL teams do that either but i'm not even going there...

I remember us talking about this before and the most pass vs run since 1980 was 66% pass vs 34% run.... The highest number of run % vs passing attempts was 1977 Oakland Raiders with around 67%... Greenerrr in a lost to CP in DW, passed the ball 2 times the ENTIRE game while running 35+ times... How is this anywhere close to sim? Greenerrr is closer to 15%/85% run vs pass.... again, i could careless as it is not about winning or losing against him because many of us have winning records against him... it is about playing sim games.

when u break it into percentages it looks really bad a 4/1 ratio but there are many people who pass the ball at this same ratio if not higher. If certain players didnt run the ball late in games to milk the clock they would be at a 7/1 ratio in favor of the pass. Yes playing greenerrr isn't alot of fun but saying a guy run the ball to much is a little crazy to me. And on i was mainly trying to defend the repetitive play calling not his run/pass ratio if you only run the ball 5-10 times a game its hard not 2 break the rule and mandating a player pass the ball a certain amount of times is crazy especially if it not done on the opposite side with runs

I won't get into this too much, as CP and I had pretty good debate in the blast chat, and we all know how this discussion has been in my other threads.

Here is the real issue.

We have a rule. Whether or not the rule needs changed, its a rule. One player does not get to decide that he can break the rule, while 31 other players in a league choose not to. You can't do it that way. While the rule is in effect, you follow it. Break the rule, face consequences. Period.

I'm not against changing the rule.... but right now, it IS an active rule.

Perhaps Greener doesn't think of it this way, but allowing him to break a 20% rule, paves the way for someone to run 20% Verticals....or 20% screens, or pick your cheese play here.... If he does it (more so anyone else for that matter), it gives people ammunition to argue that they can "beat the system", or "work in the grey area".

so, if its a rule, and he's breaking it.... he's got to stop. I posted the updated video. In it, I'm pretty certain he broke the 20% rule. So whether or not the rule needs to be changed, he broke it.

The minute you start saying "Well this rule is dumb so....." well, then you can't enforce any of the rules. Lets not go down that road.

Child_Please4285 wrote:I'm goint to start off by saying i absolutely hate playing greenerrr and we have got into many arguments i have no reason to defend him and i playing him annoys the hell out of me, but he plays just as sim as anyone so im going to list why.

1.The Rule where you cannot run 20% of the same type of plays need to be redone this should not be held into standard run plays ie. Iso's, power Os,and counters

2.If a guy wants to run the ball 25+ plays a game its absurd to make him count 5 Iso's, 5 counters, 5 sweeps, 5 draws and 5 counters. Look at it this way if a guy did 15 passes and 25 runs he would not be allowed to run 8 out of 25 of the same type runs, my favorite runs are power Os so in my case that means 8 power Os and 17 other type of meaningless runs ie. tosses and counters.

3. In the real NFL in which we are trying to emulate, teams run certain types of runs alot. The Colts for instance run 70%+ Strech plays when they run the jets,steelers,and ravens i would say 75%+ plus of the runs are slams and power Os, the chargers run mostly power Os and Denver was famous for there zone block runs.

4.The reality of it all mostly everyone breaks the run play rule i can honestly admit most of my runs are Iso's and power Os a god 70 percent i have 1 stretch play in my playbook i rarely run tosses, and counters and especially misdirectons plays dont really work in madden, well there are a few counter plays that work but they are not in my playbook.

5.to call someone out because 25% not 20% of the plays are dives or power Os is a little petty in my opinion that literally 1-2 plays over the limit.

6.The real problem is the fall forward animation since we can't police how many times you can fall forward in a game theres nothing to be done here

7. I have no exact # on this just a guess but lets say Greenerrr passes 10 times a game on AVERAGE, I can name plenty of guys who run the ball 10 or fewer times on AVERAGE!

8. What if you have a power back u mean to tell me i have to run tosses and counters with peyton hillis to not break the threshold?

9. Greenerrr strategy is legit strategy he run the ball work the clock and play D this is a very popular strategy by many teams i honesty hate the fact my ravens milk the clock when winning insted of keep tryin to score but thats there style same as greenerrr's

In closing i know everyone won't agree with me but its just my opinion. If u wanna get mad that greenerrr sends 30 messages after losing im with you, if you wanna get mad that greenerrr writes in ALL CAPS to often im with you, but i can't see how u can hang a person for running 2 to many powers Os or dives.

everyone knows that greenerrr's playing style is prehistoric. the issue is with EA. broken tackles and and broken pro-tak system AND not having consecutive hits makes his style of play way too effective. coupled with his heavy rotation of his 95+ trucking power backs its hard to stop it when u are doing what u need to do to stop it. the falling forward animation is what makes his playing style very annoying. games are boring and frustrating because there is nothing u can do when u have 9 guys in the box flowing to the ball and they do the bowling pins around the ball carrier. ppl dont want greenerrr running this offense because of that simple fact and they (me included) believe he shouldnt be based around the flaw in the game. i agree that his playing style is completely sim. its almost better than defending dual drags (which he runs alot when ever he does pass) or snap and throws the whole game.

i said all that to say this. the problem with greenerrr and his play calling and his style of play is that it is based on the success of the animation and the lack of continuous hits. doing everything known to knowledgeable football mind to stop the run is also very frustrating. bottom line this playing style is legit yet lame idc anything we can do to stop it...sooooo deal with it i guess.

All interesting points of view and well thought out arguements.

saastar wrote:

Child_Please4285 wrote:I'm goint to start off by saying i absolutely hate playing greenerrr and we have got into many arguments i have no reason to defend him and i playing him annoys the hell out of me, but he plays just as sim as anyone so im going to list why.

1.The Rule where you cannot run 20% of the same type of plays need to be redone this should not be held into standard run plays ie. Iso's, power Os,and counters

2.If a guy wants to run the ball 25+ plays a game its absurd to make him count 5 Iso's, 5 counters, 5 sweeps, 5 draws and 5 counters. Look at it this way if a guy did 15 passes and 25 runs he would not be allowed to run 8 out of 25 of the same type runs, my favorite runs are power Os so in my case that means 8 power Os and 17 other type of meaningless runs ie. tosses and counters.

3. In the real NFL in which we are trying to emulate, teams run certain types of runs alot. The Colts for instance run 70%+ Strech plays when they run the jets,steelers,and ravens i would say 75%+ plus of the runs are slams and power Os, the chargers run mostly power Os and Denver was famous for there zone block runs.

4.The reality of it all mostly everyone breaks the run play rule i can honestly admit most of my runs are Iso's and power Os a god 70 percent i have 1 stretch play in my playbook i rarely run tosses, and counters and especially misdirectons plays dont really work in madden, well there are a few counter plays that work but they are not in my playbook.

5.to call someone out because 25% not 20% of the plays are dives or power Os is a little petty in my opinion that literally 1-2 plays over the limit.

6.The real problem is the fall forward animation since we can't police how many times you can fall forward in a game theres nothing to be done here

7. I have no exact # on this just a guess but lets say Greenerrr passes 10 times a game on AVERAGE, I can name plenty of guys who run the ball 10 or fewer times on AVERAGE!

8. What if you have a power back u mean to tell me i have to run tosses and counters with peyton hillis to not break the threshold?

9. Greenerrr strategy is legit strategy he run the ball work the clock and play D this is a very popular strategy by many teams i honesty hate the fact my ravens milk the clock when winning insted of keep tryin to score but thats there style same as greenerrr's

In closing i know everyone won't agree with me but its just my opinion. If u wanna get mad that
greenerrr sends 30 messages after losing im with you, if you wanna get mad that greenerrr writes in ALL CAPS to often im with you, but i can't see how u can hang a person for running 2 to many powers Os or dives.

+1

+2

Greenerrr doesn't use glitches or money plays. He doesn't go for it 4th down from his own side of the field. Hell - he doesn't even play man coverage literally all game (which I find far more boring to play against than 70% running).

He uses the same inside runs we all use, but he just runs until you stop him. I have played Greenerrr 4 times I believe and he has passed 30-40% of the time because I attacked the los hard and forced him
into 3rd and passing situations. I have had no problem with playing him. In fact it's a refreshing change to be required to stop a run first team.

Next thing you know we are all going to be forced to be within the 35% to 65% bandwidth or be in danger of getting booted. It's a video game. If you want to run all passing plays, fine - just don't be cheater. If we don't reign in this overzealous sim outlook - the MG will be nothing more than a fringe organization. A madden cult.......it won't be the MG it will be the MC.

sam22smith wrote:

saastar wrote:

Child_Please4285 wrote:I'm goint to start off by saying i absolutely hate playing greenerrr and we have got into many arguments i have no reason to defend him and i playing him annoys the hell out of me, but he plays just as sim as anyone so im going to list why.

1.The Rule where you cannot run 20% of the same type of plays need to be redone this should not be held into standard run plays ie. Iso's, power Os,and counters

2.If a guy wants to run the ball 25+ plays a game its absurd to make him count 5 Iso's, 5 counters, 5 sweeps, 5 draws and 5 counters. Look at it this way if a guy did 15 passes and 25 runs he would not be allowed to run 8 out of 25 of the same type runs, my favorite runs are power Os so in my case that means 8 power Os and 17 other type of meaningless runs ie. tosses and counters.

3. In the real NFL in which we are trying to emulate, teams run certain types of runs alot. The Colts for instance run 70%+ Strech plays when they run the jets,steelers,and ravens i would say 75%+ plus of the runs are slams and power Os, the chargers run mostly power Os and Denver was famous for there zone block runs.

4.The reality of it all mostly everyone breaks the run play rule i can honestly admit most of my runs are Iso's and power Os a god 70 percent i have 1 stretch play in my playbook i rarely run tosses, and counters and especially misdirectons plays dont really work in madden, well there are a few counter plays that work but they are not in my playbook.

5.to call someone out because 25% not 20% of the plays are dives or power Os is a little petty in my opinion that literally 1-2 plays over the limit.

6.The real problem is the fall forward animation since we can't police how many times you can fall forward in a game theres nothing to be done here

7. I have no exact # on this just a guess but lets say Greenerrr passes 10 times a game on AVERAGE, I can name plenty of guys who run the ball 10 or fewer times on AVERAGE!

8. What if you have a power back u mean to tell me i have to run tosses and counters with peyton hillis to not break the threshold?

9. Greenerrr strategy is legit strategy he run the ball work the clock and play D this is a very popular strategy by many teams i honesty hate the fact my ravens milk the clock when winning insted of keep tryin to score but thats there style same as greenerrr's

In closing i know everyone won't agree with me but its just my opinion. If u wanna get mad that
greenerrr sends 30 messages after losing im with you, if you wanna get mad that greenerrr writes in ALL CAPS to often im with you, but i can't see how u can hang a person for running 2 to many powers Os or dives.

+1

+2

Greenerrr doesn't use glitches or money plays. He doesn't go for it 4th down from his own side of the field. Hell - he doesn't even play man coverage literally all game (which I find far more boring to play against than 70% running).

He uses the same inside runs we all use, but he just runs until you stop him. I have played Greenerrr 4 times I believe and he has passed 30-40% of the time because I attacked the los hard and forced him
into 3rd and passing situations. I have had no problem with playing him. In fact it's a refreshing change to be required to stop a run first team.

Next thing you know we are all going to be forced to be within the 35% to 65% bandwidth or be in danger of getting booted. It's a video game. If you want to run all passing plays, fine - just don't be cheater. If we don't reign in this overzealous sim outlook - the MG will be nothing more than a fringe organization. A madden cult.......it won't be the MG it will be the MC.

WELL WRITTEN SAMSMITH - and u are hitting my point exactly - and clearly he doesnt have a problem with the way i play and thats probably because he STOPPED MY RUN GAME - and forced me to change things up - but if i am running the ball effectively vs someone and winning te game - WHY THE HELL WOULD I PASS JUST FOR THE SAKE PASSING??? that makes no sense at all...

ultimately this is part of what causes the issue - the guys who stop the run - get a game vs me with more passes - and dont complain - THE GUYS WHO DONT STOP MY RUN - get minimal passes and end up complaining about it - but if they were able to stop the run -= they would see more passes - thats the circle...