Weasel Sanctioned...

This is over due...

In our first week game - 90 seconds left in gm, I am running the clock to get a close win over weasel - he employs a clear GAP GUESS strategy stopping what of would have been a clear first down and a win....

If he blatantly breaks rules vs me - CLEARLY HE WILL BREAK RULES VS ANYONE!

Definition - GAP GUESSING occurs in short yardage when use CRASH RIGHT or LEFT to anticipate - aka GUESS the direction of the play...

NOTE: GAP GUESSING (from what i seen in practice mode) works different vs CPU then it does vs a HUMAN PLAYER - for this discussion i am talking about how it works vs a HUMAN

First off - I want to concede that GAP GUESSING is a legit part of football - i am not opposed to the idea of GAP GUESSING (i think its a part of the game that EA tried to implement but unfortunately it doesnt work the way it does "in the real world") - this post is not about IF GAP GUESSING happens in football - its about its effectiveness in madden!

In short yardage - especially on the goal-line - i have noticed more and more players GAP GUESSING - and imo its works way too well (when implemented by a player with even just "average" user skills)

If you " gap guess" in the correct direction - U GET A STOP EVERYTIME (regardless of the play you run, how good your offensive players are or how weak your defensive players may be) and i am actually somewhat indifferent with this - although i do think that the OLINE should still be able to make blocks HALF THE TIME to counter the GAP GUESS (afterall they have the advantage - they know where the ball is running and when the ball will be snapped)

The bigger issue is how successful this tactic can be even when the defense "gap guesses" in the wrong direction - If the offense runs toss to the opposite side of the field then the "gap guess", The backside CB takes on the lead blocking FB, The guard gets entangled with all the DL players who are "gap guessing" and is out of the play - and an average USER can control the backside SAFETY - and comes down and makes an easy 1 on 1 tackle - (if u are unable to JUKE or RUN over the defender he stuffs the play for a loss!)

If you try to run the DIVE to OFFTACKLE hole (towards the side the defense is guessing towards or away) - your OLINE doesnt make a block because all the DL players are "shifting" through these running lanes - at best you can hope for is your OLINE player to make a "pile" and then if your RB runs into that pile he is probably gonna just fall down!

IN CONCLUSION:

1) if u run the same way that the defense gap guesses - U GET SMASHED FOR A LOSS

2) If u run to the opposite side that the defense gap guesses towards - The USER makes a relatively simple 1 on 1 tackle

3) If you run from A to C gap or from 0 to 6 hole, The shifting DL penetration at best creates a pile in your run lane and all you can hope for is to get back to the line of scrimmage!

Should running the ball in short yardage be that ineffective? I know from a SIM style perspective it makes my hair stand on end - but from a freestyle standpoint - ITS A KILLER TACTIC!

Weasel denies doing GAP GUESS (which i definitely saw...) - He has claimed that this was a recreation of GAP GUESS by:

- manipulating 2 players on 1 side of field to play QB contain...
- shifting the DL to the action side
- having the DL CRASH MIDDLE

I tried this over and over - couldnt create the same circumstance that happened in the game...

But for arguement sake - lets say that these steps did recreate the DL action in GAP GUESS... If thats the case he technically didnt break the rule BUT HE IS CIRCUMVENTING THE SHIT OUT OF IT!

WHAT FOOTBALL VALUE IS THERE TO HAVE DT and DE (on the same side of the field - in 9 and 5 technique) both playing QB contain?

this makes no football sense at all - the only reason u would have 2 players on the same side of field in QB CONTAIN is to mess with AI of the defense... He new the essence of the rule - he just was looking for ways to circumvent it - (and in many ways thats worse then breaking the rule...)

After considerable discussion i have re-instated Weasel (who is under the strictest of probabtion - 1 more infraction he is gone...)

- The next time the BUCS play the JETS in regular season (which probably wont happen for 3 years because they are in difference conferences) JETS forfeits that game to BUCS...

- if  BUCS miss the playoff by 1 game - JETS will lose his first round pick to BUCS...

- If i BUCS make the playoffs JETS will have first round pick returned and i will give his 3rd round pick to the weakest team in the LG...

- If the JETS beat out another team by 1 game to make the playoffs and the BUCS make the playoffs - the team the JETS beat out by 1 game will get the JETS first round pick...

- Weasel forfeits all his coaching XP accumulated to date...

please, he ain't the only one doing it... And how is that any different from people shuffling their defenders all around in the box to make their blitzes more effective (nano blitzing)?

either way the line isn't picking up the blitzers the way they would in real life, which makes those tricks just as effective as gap guessing... And everybody that calls themselves "skilled" shuffles their players in and out of the box damn near every play.

My point: if that's legal, why is gap guessing banned?

CharlieHustle wrote:please, he ain't the only one doing it... And how is that any different from people shuffling their defenders all around in the box to make their blitzes more effective (nano blitzing)?

either way the line isn't picking up the blitzers the way they would in real life, which makes those tricks just as effective as gap guessing... And everybody that calls themselves "skilled" shuffles their players in and out of the box damn near every play.

My point: if that's legal, why is gap guessing banned?

gap guess is proved to be a glitch - show mne any play you have a problem with - GIVE ME THE EXACT SET UP - if i cant find a LEGIT and REASONABLE counter - THEN THAT PLAY WILL BE ADDED TO THE GLITCH LIST... that simple...

CharlieHustle wrote:please, he ain't the only one doing it... And how is that any different from people shuffling their defenders all around in the box to make their blitzes more effective (nano blitzing)?

either way the line isn't picking up the blitzers the way they would in real life, which makes those tricks just as effective as gap guessing... And everybody that calls themselves "skilled" shuffles their players in and out of the box damn near every play.

My point: if that's legal, why is gap guessing banned?

By shuffling players around in the box using lb shift or line shift you r just creating simple overloads that can be defended by line shift or hb blocking, those r not nanos,  a nano is something that can not be slide protected or blocked. i would much rather face someone actually attemting to blitz then running simple 2man under all gm long. Creating a overload is one of the simplest things to do on madden and if u havent figured it out in 2 yrs thats your own fault

If u want to see a nano look up madden 13 43 overplus dt blitz, thats a nano

Tillman I'm frustrated trying to think tank this game when everything I come up with Greener just labels lobby trash and I get punished. I know impish the envelope with the sim rules we have here but I feel like I'm within the boundaries

I can't wait for the ps4. I think we will be able to record these kind of things and see what happened. The way Greener described this I don't see the problem with what weasel did. Sounds like a good strategy to me. Maybe just bitter he lost? I don't know. If I could have seen it I might feel different.
A 1st rounder if you miss the playoffs? That sounds quite unfair. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd, but a first? That's not fair to the rest of the league. Why should you get 2 first rounf picks if you go 9-7 and miss playoffs by one game? That's very sketchy. Perhaps you should get his 3rd and the worst team get his first if you insist on taking his 1st.

weasel_ wrote:Tillman I'm frustrated trying to think tank this game when everything I come up with Greener just labels lobby trash and I get punished.  I know impish the envelope with the sim rules we have here but I feel like I'm within the boundaries

YOU ADMITTED TO HAVING A OLB IN 9 TECHNIQUE (which a OLB on the line of scrimmage but he lines up outside shade of the TE) and a DT IN 5 TECHNIQUE (which has the DT line up head up on the offensive tackle) - and these 2 players are literally right beside each other (on the same side of the field...) AND YOU CHANGE BOTH THESE PLAYERS INTO QB CONTAIN?

What SIM football value does these adjustment have? - it certainly has NOTHING to do with containing the QB!

The worse of this is that less then a minute before - weasel was driving the ball with the run gm - looking like he was going to score 7 (and take the lead) - but I was able to scramble for a recovered fumble on the 3 yard line to stop his drive (his other 2 fumbles were recovered by his team and he had 4 passes thrown blatantly into coverage by PRYOR - who is the worse passer of all starting QBs but they were just dropped by me DBs) - so me recovering this fumble on my goalie was long overdue!

But my point is - when weasel was driving ball down my throat (and the gm was on the line for me...) I didn't resort to breaking rules or doing screwball adjustments to mess with the AI of the OL - I just did my best to stop him!

When he is faced with the same circumstance - he does whatever BS he can find for an advantage - LEGIT or not - he doesn't care! This can't continue and I got loss a game because of it....

You will face these sanctions - already have control of the draft picks and will make sure the right people receive them at the end of year! (And if you think I will forget about you forfeiting our next gm - YOUR WRONG!) - I DON'T CARE IF ITS 6 SEASONS FROM NOW, THE LAST GM OF THE YEAR (where I have a first round bye already locked up - and you are fighting for a playoff spot) - I will take that CPU win vs you - u need to understand there are consequences for your actions SO U DON'T PULL CRAP LIKE THIS AGAIN - it's not fair to the rest of us who follow rules to the letter!

Maddening isn't it? wrote:
 A 1st rounder if you miss the playoffs? That sounds quite unfair. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd, but a first? That's not fair to the rest of the league. Why should you get 2 first rounf picks if you go 9-7 and miss playoffs by one game? That's very sketchy. Perhaps you should get his 3rd and the worst team get his first if you insist on taking his 1st.

Read the post above - that explains WHY GAP GUESSING IS BANNED! - IT'S A 100% RUN STOP EVERY TIME!

And if you think having 2 players (beside each other and in the same side if the field) BOTH IN QB CONTAIN has any value to SIM play (except trying to mess with OL artificial intelligence) - then I need to know what that is!

I have played intercollegiate football and coached HS football for 17 years! I can't think of a legit reason why someone would do this!

Second - I make the playoffs every year (at least I have for last 2 madden seasons - but this is going to be really tough in a division with beastmode - where I put him in my division so others wouldn't bitch about having 2 regular losses every year) So if I don't make playoffs - the year is a complete waste! And if I don't make playoffs because of what weasel did - I REALLY THINK I SHOULD GET ALL HIS PICKS (and even then that's not enough!)

My compensation for Weasel SCREWING ME OUT OF PLAYOFFS IS SMALL (if any of the playoff teams wants to have the extra pick from weasel - and I get to move my team into their playoff spot - I WILL BE HAPPY TO DO THIS!) - but nobody will, the pick from weasel will be in late 2Os or early 30s - the value of that is negligible! (Nobody will give up a playoff spot for that mediocre pick!)

Greener it's still over kill punishment. Of you admit that gap guessing is a real NFL and football technique but don't like how it looks in the game thence it illegal and I think tank a way to still try to get my players to all go to one side. How can you gap guess then? All these sliders to augment game play yet the game has shot built into it to help the defense and you still way to handicap the defense as to make the game more easy to play. I DON'T UNDERTAND THE LOGIC HERE. Not to mention maybe because this ain't madden 13 and it's a new game where alot of shot has changed maybe some of the things you think are cheese or glitchy or the we you want to call it work better. Year to year you have to have a rule committee to go over stuff like this. This rule you put in last year again without a league vote in the middle of the season while I was undefeated! I was 11-0 at the time and insides 13-3 and lost in the playoffs. So I went to work to figure out how to try to duplicate the affect and came up with something. It's not fair. You get angry so fast. This game is so high powered to the offense already and even this year it's harder to stop the run then last year seems like . You have GEN HON spend hours on sliders to he desired affect and I spent hours to figure ways to make my guys move how I want .

You had run the option only to the left side and the Qb Was getting big gains you had converted half of your third downs with that play. So I was trying to protect against that. I figured you were running left because you had all game in that situation. So I want all my guys going left and then wanted to watch the backside myself. I don t know the Xs and Os like you or how to explain a 5 technique or 9 technique and shit like that. In my brain I say he's running left I want to blow this play up so I re program my guys to achieve what I want because greener we only get To use 1 player not all 11 and the AI Doesn't compensate properly so you have to have ways of controlling the entire team at once that's why the game has pass guess and run guess PRE snap. You are breaking the game with this rule big time. especially Now that you can't even audible into goaline now . So you have a remedy for that ? Can you teach me how to defend myself in aa no huddle short yardage situation without being able to audible to goaline ?

You didn't even let the league vote in this last year you mandated t without pooling the opinions of all the members in the league and you did it after a loss in the middle of the 6th season man. Come on man let the members voices be heard on this one please.

I explained in DETAIL - in language a 3 year would understand - why GAP GUESS is illegal - and why its a glitch - IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH HAVING A RULE TO ELIMINATE GAP GUESS, U HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING IN A SIM LEAGUE!

And sorry - I am not letting guys VOTE on things that i can see 100% is a glitch - I dont do glitchy bs - I expect the same from others in my SIM league...

But u have proved that OVER and OVER again - YOU ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH FINDING GLITCHY TACTICS then playing SIM...,

and dont give me this BS that u were running SPY to stop READ option - I WAS IN A STRONG FORMATION - (no pistol...) even an average player would know there is no OPTION play in a STRONG formation! U called the DOUBLE QB CONTAIN to fuck with AI of the OLINE - thats the only reason... (and for the record i dont believe u even did that - i certasin u did a straight up GAP GUESS - and are trying to show that GAP GUESS effect can be created without doing a "GAP GUESS"...)

So ultimately its 1 of 2 things...

1) - U called GAP GUESS and clearly broke the rules and won because of it...

or

2) You used some BS glitcy DOUBLE QB CONTAIN to mess with the OL artificial intelligence...

either way its TOTAL BS and unacceptable... You literally stole a win from me... And i really should have just PULLED THE PLUG of the game - put you on auto and got the win - But even though you truely screwed me large, its not in my make up to do such garbage (but if roles were reversed - i have no doubt you would have pulled the ethernet cord...)

I never quit any games and take my lumps like a man!!!! I make no excuses and play the game to win period! There is a pattern here greener of you Ming up rules after losses. All you did all game after I made numerous plays was taint me with "lucky". Text messages. Not ever not once in three years have I gotten a good game from you. Shit man this is only the second time I've been able to beat you In 3 years you must be like 8-2 all time vs me. You discredit people's Victoria over you IMMEDIATLY and the way you act after losses is always to blame the game and how it works then give credit when it is due. The whole game you were spying 2 guys to stop Pryor and I can't spy two defenders on a play? I get what youa te trying to do to keep this league a fun and fair envipremt. I think you go over board and in particular with this very rule. All the other rules I get and understand this one I hate and I think it's just something that frustrates you because you are a run first guy. I'm sorry GREEENER out playing style differ vastly but I shouldn't be punished for it. A good member who is dedicated and have brought good players into the league that has made it better and more competitive.

So if you miss the playoffs you will get a higher pick and weasel's 1st. That is bs. Take his 1st and give it to the worst player. Take his 2nd or 3rd for yourself. You getting 2 1st rounders is a big fuck you to the other 30 teams. That shit just ain't fair dog. I don't care if his pick is between 20-30, it's still a #1. Take all his picks if you must and give them to bad teams (minus your 3rd) I don't give a shit, but no 1st for you. That ain't right man.

I agree also that it isn't fair to the rest of the league to line his team with draft pics on a controversial ruling. Is there am appeal process here like I'm the real NFL ? Or is this just a communist run league ? Because that's why it feels like. The Qb contain is not glitchy at all and I'm telling you take a poll on the skill level of the players in the league the upper tier players the top ten guys all have the ability to change between 4-6 guys assignments PRE snap. The second tier get about 2-4 done and the bottom tier don't even do it at all maybe 1 or 2 guys. Ou can't compete on a top level without making PRE snap adjustments.

Maddening isn't it? wrote:So if you miss the playoffs you will get a higher pick and weasel's 1st. That is bs. Take his 1st and give it to the worst player. Take his 2nd or 3rd for yourself. You getting 2 1st rounders is a big fuck you to the other 30 teams. That shit just ain't fair dog. I don't care if his pick is between 20-30, it's still a #1. Take all his picks if you must and give them to bad teams (minus your 3rd) I don't give a shit, but no 1st for you. That ain't right man.

but whats fair to me? I only get the pick if i miss the playoffs because of this BS game!

I always make the playoffs - and if i DONT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS (and it because of this total BS cheating tactic - I SHOULD GET ALL HIS PICS!) - The extra FIRST ROUND PICK (which will be in late 20s or early 30s) is not worth missing the playoffs!

I DONT WANT THE PICK - I WANT IN THE PLAYOFFS!

Green Bay didn't get Seattle's 1st pick when they got screwed last year. Yes I know they made the playoffs but even if they hadn't they wouldn't have. I'm fine with you taking his picks even if you do make the playoffs. Just not his 1st for you. If you want his 2nd and 4th I'm ok with that. Give his 1st and 3rd to the 2 worst teams. I uunderstand you're pissed but don't do us all dirty because of it.

weasel_ wrote:There is a pattern here greener of you Ming up rules after losses.

This rule has been on the books for MONTHS - and i am convinced you did a 100% GAP GUESS...

but...

lets say things happened the way you said it did - ITS STILL A COMPLETE AND BS TACTIC THAT HAS NO BASIS IN SIM PLAY AT ALL! anyone could see that - I am in a strong formation THAT THERE IS NO CHANCE OF DOING A READ OPTION (that play doesnt exist in the game - and you know that...) - then u tell us that u put 2 players standing beside each other BOTH IN QB CONTAIN!!!!

- please... thats the biggest load of crap - if that happened - IT WAS TO MESS THE AI LOGIC OF OLINE - (but thats NOT WHAT HAPPENED - its a screwball storey you came up with to try to justify the GAP GUESS animation....)

bottom line:


1) - U called GAP GUESS and clearly broke the rules and won because of it...

or

2) You used some BS glitch DOUBLE QB CONTAIN to mess with the OL artificial intelligence...

either way its TOTAL BS and unacceptable... You literally stole a win from me...

weasel_ wrote: You discredit people's Victoria over you IMMEDIATLY and the way you act after losses is always to blame the game and how it works then give credit when it is due.  

You really going to say this AFTER YOU BLATANTLY CHEATED AND STOLE A GAME FROM ME! - Why would i give you respect for that? More stupid posts you make, more i think i should just bounce you!

weasel_ wrote:The whole game you were spying 2 guys to stop Pryor and I can't spy two defenders on a play?

wtf are u talking about - OF COURSE U CAN SPY AS MANY GUYS AS U WANT - and thats a legit tactic to do vs PRYOR who can only run and cant pass...

What u did was 2 QB CONTAINS OF PLAYERS STANDING BESIDE EACH OTHER vs a formation that has ZERO QB runs or QB OPTIONS in its playbook (which you are well aware of...)

Putting 2 players who are beside each other (in 9 and 5 technique) make zero football sense... having 2 players in a SPY vs a QB that only can run (and cant pass...) - is a no brainer!

weasel_ wrote:I think you go over board and in particular with this very rule.

How could u go overboard with a rule? You know the rule and the essence of the rule... - THIS RULE IS EXPLAINED IN HUGE DETAIL - anyone could see why its such a GLITCH tactic...

all your concerned with is finding BS plays that give you advantage - WHy not just improve your stick skills and bring up your football IQ by learning FUNDAMENTAL FOOTBALL STRATEGY instead of finding ways you can fuck with the video games AI to gain an advantage?

Maddening isn't it? wrote:So if you miss the playoffs you will get a higher pick and weasel's 1st. That is bs. Take his 1st and give it to the worst player. Take his 2nd or 3rd for yourself. You getting 2 1st rounders is a big fuck you to the other 30 teams. That shit just ain't fair dog. I don't care if his pick is between 20-30, it's still a #1. Take all his picks if you must and give them to bad teams (minus your 3rd) I don't give a shit, but no 1st for you. That ain't right man.

Missing the playoffs because someone blatantly cheated AND FUCKED YOU - is worth a hell of a lot more then a first round pick... AND I DONT EVEN GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE PICK!

If this is what your concerned about - I will be happy to employ this BUT ITS STILL A ROYAL FUCK OVER TO ME... No pick is worth missing the playoffs!!!!

Maddening isn't it? wrote:Green Bay didn't get Seattle's 1st pick when they got screwed last year. Yes I know they made the playoffs but even if they hadn't they wouldn't have. I'm fine with you taking his picks even if you do make the playoffs. Just not his 1st for you. If you want his 2nd and 4th I'm ok with that. Give his 1st and 3rd to the 2 worst teams. I uunderstand you're pissed but don't do us all dirty because of it.

Still not looking at iof from my perspective - MISSING THE PLAYOFFS IS A COMPLETE IN TOTAL FAILURE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE (and if this happens to me because someone cheated me - no pick is worth compensation of me not making the playoffs!!!)

but we have to have sanctions in place - if we dont have TANGIBLE SANCTIONS that matter to guys - less then ethical players will break rules because they know there is no consequence!!!

If You want the playoffs knuckle up and beat the guys who you will be compete ting against for a playoff spot. Not cyber bully troll me out for a non conference away game. 15 Ames left and you acting like the season is in jeopardy now. As if I'm some easy win and am a bum. BS tactic nothing it's BS youa de the gap guessing illegal after you LOST last year. Always after you loose you knot pick the game for the flaws that cost you the game because for some weird reason you think this aint a video game and is real football. IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!! An damn me to hell for replacing the artificial inteligence with my own?

weasel_ wrote:If You want the playoffs knuckle up and beat the guys who you will be compete ting against for a playoff spot.  Not cyber bully troll me out for a non conference away game.   15 Ames left and you acting like the season is in jeopardy now.   As if I'm some easy win and am a bum.   BS tactic nothing it's BS youa de the gap guessing illegal after you LOST last year.  Always after you loose you knot pick the game for the flaws that cost you the game because for some weird reason you think this aint a video game and is real football.   IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!!   An damn me to hell for replacing the artificial inteligence with my own?  

You right - If i make the playoffs - the effect of this game is basically meaningless - although it shows questionable decision making on your part...

But if i miss the playoffs by 1 game - then this game ISTANTLY BECOMES THE REASON WHY - and i have every reason to want to be compensated for being screwed out of a win and the subsequent playoff spot i should have had!

Well you might claim you missed the playoffs by one game but might have still lost a tie breaker so it better be legit if that happen. Our game is way down the tie breaker list. You could finish 9-7 and the wildcard team beats you out with a 10-6 ain't you missing the playoffs because of our game if that person has a head to head win vs you they would win a tie breaker even if you had finished with the same record. Just putting that out there.