Re: Thank God Peyton Hillis beat that bitch Vick.....

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:31 pm

jmojsoski wrote:
Okay this is a lil ridiculous I am in no way saying vick should have a lighter sentence, however I am saying that Stallworth did receive a slap on the wrist. Is Accidental Vehicular homicide better form Vehicular Homicide? No matter if Stallworth took responsibility or not, he should have been persecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Facts, Speeding and drunk driving. To laws which are broken which resulted in a Death of an individual, yet he received 30 days due to his corporation.

But with the great and wonderful judicial system we have in the U.S, Stallworth case was not seen as a Vehicular Homicide but a Vehicular Homicide with negligence (accident). Which is why he got a lighter sentence. Without going into what if scenarios, I believe you assume all responsibility when you decide to drunk and drive and you know what the consequences are. Which is why I thought his case should have been treated as a Vehicular Homicide. But when you kill a HUMAN being by accident and a DOG on purpose, one should not be vauled higher then the other. IMO. DOG's are not more valuable then human beings

Drunk driving and SPEEDING is not an accident in IMO. These actions have resulted in a death by accident? When indeed drunk driving and speeding are not done by accident. And Shane, how would you feel if it was a relative you loved? Would 30 days be justice in your eyes, when a drunk driver speeding hit your relative?

You are confusing things, and you clearly don't have a grasp on the judicial system.
a) Stallworth's crimes are state crimes. He Cooperated. Showed immediate Remorse.
b) Vick's crimes were Federal, which are immediately punished heavier. Vicks Dog Fighting Charge was the LOWEST CHARGE of ALL of the charges against him. So to focus on that is insanity. HE CREATED, CONTROLLED, AND FUNDED AN ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION....TO WHICH DOG FIGHTING WAS ONLY A PART....A PART OF THEIR ACTIONS. Part of his original charges included Money Laundering and Racketeering....which he was later just charged using the RICO act, which encompasses all of those crimes. The time that Vick did in Prison were for the Greater Federal Charge under the RICO act.

The charges for his Dog Fighting: guilty plea to a single Virginia felony charge for dog fighting, receiving a 3 year prison sentence, imposition of which was suspended upon condition of good behavior, and a $2500 fine

He got a suspended sentence, and a $2,500 find for Dog Fighting.... less than Stallworth. The major sentence for was his Federal Crimes regarding organized crime.....

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:31 pm

mblammers wrote:But Cheddah, answer this please...

What would you do to me if I raped your dog?

lol...really tho, I hoping to see an insight view from a lawyer...lol

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:33 pm

Cheddah_Cheez wrote: Ben Roethlisberger is raping women...on SEVERAL occassions, yet the outcry about him is miniscule in comparison to those on Vick.

Big Ben is White, so I give him a pass...

JUST KIDDING.... Smile

Seriously, Big Ben should also be banned from the NFL, thats fucked up.

by Cheddah_Cheez Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:33 pm

mblammers wrote:But Cheddah, answer this please...

What would you do to me if I raped your dog?

Well, I guess it depends on if you got her pregnant or not...

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:34 pm

jmojsoski wrote:
lol...really tho, I hoping to see an insight view from a lawyer...lol

Exactly?!?! Blammers, Cheddah... c'mon now! RICO Act = Federal.. DUI = State.
lol.

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:45 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:
jmojsoski wrote:
Okay this is a lil ridiculous I am in no way saying vick should have a lighter sentence, however I am saying that Stallworth did receive a slap on the wrist. Is Accidental Vehicular homicide better form Vehicular Homicide? No matter if Stallworth took responsibility or not, he should have been persecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Facts, Speeding and drunk driving. To laws which are broken which resulted in a Death of an individual, yet he received 30 days due to his corporation.

But with the great and wonderful judicial system we have in the U.S, Stallworth case was not seen as a Vehicular Homicide but a Vehicular Homicide with negligence (accident). Which is why he got a lighter sentence. Without going into what if scenarios, I believe you assume all responsibility when you decide to drunk and drive and you know what the consequences are. Which is why I thought his case should have been treated as a Vehicular Homicide. But when you kill a HUMAN being by accident and a DOG on purpose, one should not be vauled higher then the other. IMO. DOG's are not more valuable then human beings

Drunk driving and SPEEDING is not an accident in IMO. These actions have resulted in a death by accident? When indeed drunk driving and speeding are not done by accident. And Shane, how would you feel if it was a relative you loved? Would 30 days be justice in your eyes, when a drunk driver speeding hit your relative?

You are confusing things, and you clearly don't have a grasp on the judicial system.
a) Stallworth's crimes are state crimes. He Cooperated. Showed immediate Remorse.
b) Vick's crimes were Federal, which are immediately punished heavier. Vicks Dog Fighting Charge was the LOWEST CHARGE of ALL of the charges against him. So to focus on that is insanity. HE CREATED, CONTROLLED, AND FUNDED AN ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION....TO WHICH DOG FIGHTING WAS ONLY A PART....A PART OF THEIR ACTIONS. Part of his original charges included Money Laundering and Racketeering....which he was later just charged using the RICO act, which encompasses all of those crimes. The time that Vick did in Prison were for the Greater Federal Charge under the RICO act.

The charges for his Dog Fighting: guilty plea to a single Virginia felony charge for dog fighting, receiving a 3 year prison sentence, imposition of which was suspended upon condition of good behavior, and a $2500 fine

He got a suspended sentence, and a $2,500 find for Dog Fighting.... less than Stallworth. The major sentence for was his Federal Crimes regarding organized crime.....

I agree with the federal and state crimes being greater and lesser, however stallworth's legal team exploited Florida statute 316.119.. Stallworth was facing 15 prison sentence yet his legal team reduced the sentence to 2 months, house arrest and lengthy probation. What part of this am I not grasping, his cooperation didn't net him a lower sentence his legal team proved since the pedestrian was jaywalking (not in crosswalk) it was not Stallworth's responsibility of the Vehicular Homicide.

Yet we have a kid James Matthew Judkins, we pleaded guilty to a DUI manslaughter and received a year sentence.

by Cheddah_Cheez Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:46 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:
Cheddah_Cheez wrote: Ben Roethlisberger is raping women...on SEVERAL occassions, yet the outcry about him is miniscule in comparison to those on Vick.

Big Ben is White, so I give him a pass...

JUST KIDDING....

Seriously, Big Ben should also be banned from the NFL, thats fucked up.

I know you're joking, but I'm sure there are MANY MANY people that subconsciously think along those lines. I know my opinion might SEEM skewed because I'm black, but to me, the outcry on Vick by the majority of his detractors IS because of his race (Majority being the key word...I'm sure there are many people who only hate him because of his crime). In the media, when you hear someone bashing Vick, most people typically call him a "thug" or words along those lines. Calling him a thug, has nothing to do with his animal cruelty conviction. It's based on the way he talks, walks, looks, and his old spice swag rating. If you deny that you're naive. Drawing a parallel, listen to Big Ben's interviews early in his career, if you didn't know it was him talking, you'd be hard pressed to tell whether the athlete was black or white. His accent (for lack of a better word) is toned down these days, but you can still hear him slip up sometimes...especially right after big games. What I'm saying is, Roethlisberger committed crimes that were much worse than killing dogs, talked(s) and acts similar to Vick, yet no one calls him a thug. See what I'm saying? I personally hate when other black people pull the race card, simply because it's pulled SO much and more often than not in situations where it's uncalled for, but I think anyone who sees the Vick situation as such has a good point.

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:48 pm

Leonard Little also got a slap of the wrist for his Involuntary Manslaughter

by Cheddah_Cheez Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:49 pm

For the record, I don't think either should be banned from the NFL. These are all personal issues. I think both are shitty people. But to me, you're personal issues shouldn't have an impact on your job, unless they're intrinsically related. Being a good football player has nothing to do with killing dogs, or raping women. Now, if Vick was a dog trainer, he should be fired, or if Ben was a gynecologist, he should be fired, but they're not. Which is why I think the outcry for people wanted banishment is ridiculous.

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:49 pm

jmojsoski wrote:
I agree with the federal and state crimes being greater and lesser, however stallworth's legal team exploited Florida statute 316.119.. Stallworth was facing 15 prison sentence yet his legal team reduced the sentence to 2 months, house arrest and lengthy probation. What part of this am I not grasping, his cooperation didn't net him a lower sentence his legal team proved since the pedestrian was jaywalking (not in crosswalk) it was not Stallworth's responsibility of the Vehicular Homicide.

Yet we have a kid James Matthew Judkins, we pleaded guilty to a DUI manslaughter and received a year sentence.

So let me get this right? The pedestrian can actually break the law, and it be someone else's fault? Yes, its Jay walking, a pretty gay crime (sorry Bill), but had the pedestrian followed the law, he very well could be alive today. Stallworth might have been charged with his first DUI, and not vehicular Manslaughter, and walked away with a suspended license for 90 days, and an Alcohol class.....

by Child_Please4285 Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:53 pm

jmojsoski wrote:
Cheddah_Cheez wrote:
Secondly, I LOVE dogs, but let's be serious, they're animals, not people. If Vick was killing people, it'd be a different story, but they aren't. He was punished for his crimes, he suffered a penalty that I personally think was incredibly severe (but thats just imo) and he has expressed his regret and sorrow about it all. People still wanna crucify this guy for his past crimes. It's absolutely insane. Not only has he done all the above, but he even participates in tons of community service now. Whether genuine or not, we can never really know, but he's still doing more than his share to try and make ammends for what he did. Yet people STILL kill him over it. I hate the fact that they blame it on him being cruel to animals, as if he's the only one in society that is cruel to animals. What are exterminators and pest controllers? They kill Racoons, snakes, and all other kinds of shit. But that's ok because they're not cute fluffy puppies? What are people who hunt deer? They televise that shit. Fact of the matter is, anyone who hates Vick because he was cruel to dogs, and cries out for him to be ejected from football, etc. that also doesn't cry out in an equal manner for similar people to be punished is a hypocrite. Would I be friends with him? No. But come on, it's obvious people who still hate on the guy have some deeper seeded issues with him.

Honestly, you have much worse people in the league than Mike Vick, and no one cares. Ben Roethlisberger is raping women...on SEVERAL occassions, yet the outcry about him is miniscule in comparison to those on Vick. I'll tell you what...If you killed my Dog, I'd probably hate you. But if you raped my mother, sister, daughter I'd probably kill you. I can't see anyone reasonably disagreeing with that.

+1

Lol accident. Are you completely forgeting he was drunk and speeding?

Federal and State Laws have nothing to do with anything. We were talking about Vick public perception. We were speaking of the Moral aspect. I don't care if Vick was the Don Corleone of some Dog fighting ring and gambling, RICO or anything that don't equate to killing a Man

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:54 pm

SO stallworth being drunk and speeding is not his fault? where have these actions lead too? Death of someone? Sure Jaywalking is a gray crime as you say but, could have stallworth been able to prevent this guys death hadn't been drunk or speeding?

by Cheddah_Cheez Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:55 pm

jmojsoski wrote:Leonard Little also got a slap of the wrist for his Involuntary Manslaughter

In Stallworth's case, I don't know the particulars, but from the little I do know, I think the judgement was fucked up. I'm not trying to be a criminal lawyer, but from the course I took as an elective 4 years ago, I think the degrees of murder are as follows: 3rd: Manslaughter (Accidental), 2nd: Murder that occurs as a result of committing another crime, 1st: Planned murder.

So to me, Stallworth should have been convicted of 2nd degree murder, because he was illegally driving while intoxicated AND speeding, and killed someone. I'm sure he wasn't convicted of this because he has a boat load of money, sick lawyers, is famous, and cooperated/was remorseful. But again, I don't know the specifics.

by Child_Please4285 Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:55 pm

Oppps quoted wrong post

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:56 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:
jmojsoski wrote:
I agree with the federal and state crimes being greater and lesser, however stallworth's legal team exploited Florida statute 316.119.. Stallworth was facing 15 prison sentence yet his legal team reduced the sentence to 2 months, house arrest and lengthy probation. What part of this am I not grasping, his cooperation didn't net him a lower sentence his legal team proved since the pedestrian was jaywalking (not in crosswalk) it was not Stallworth's responsibility of the Vehicular Homicide.

Yet we have a kid James Matthew Judkins, we pleaded guilty to a DUI manslaughter and received a year sentence.

So let me get this right? The pedestrian can actually break the law, and it be someone else's fault? Yes, its Jay walking, a pretty gay crime (sorry Bill), but had the pedestrian followed the law, he very well could be alive today. Stallworth might have been charged with his first DUI, and not vehicular Manslaughter, and walked away with a suspended license for 90 days, and an Alcohol class.....

SO you are saying the death of the pedestrian was soley on the pedestrain?

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:57 pm

Cheddah_Cheez wrote:I know my opinion might SEEM skewed because I'm black

lol, I actually thought you were White.... oops.

As for the rest, I agree with a lot of it. But I think Vick gets called a Thug because he hangs out with Felons, not necessarily because he's black. Vick just doesn't make the smartest choices (even to this day).

Big Ben has no place in the NFL, I agree 100%... As a matter of fact, I don't think any Felon should be making millions playing a sport.

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:59 pm

I have not this much discussion on the boards in awhile... Great convo

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:02 pm

jmojsoski wrote:
SO you are saying the death of the pedestrian was soley on the pedestrain?

I'm saying the negligence of the pedestrian to follow the laws, resulted in them being a contributing factor in his own death. If the pedestrian crosses at the crosswalk, then Stallworth would have already driven by before the man crossed....simple physics. A car travelling at 60 mph is going to pass a person walking at under 4 mph. Not to mention the victim would have had to travel the extra feet forward, and then across. Stallworth would have been a few car lengths past the impact location....and the man would still be alive.

I'm not saying Stallworth shouldn't be charged with DUI and even Reckless Endangerment maybe.... But any jury has to take into account the victims own illegal actions as a contributory cause.

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:02 pm

jmojsoski wrote:I have not this much discussion on the boards in awhile... Great convo

I agree....Boards were dead, we needed something Smile

by Child_Please4285 Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:05 pm

Felons imply someone that has been convicted of a felony. So you are are saying a guy who changed his was and may have commited lets say he commited burglary but did his time he shouldnt make money in the NFL?

In my opinion a guy does a crime that's that once he did his time its over, he's paid his debt to society

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:08 pm

Child_Please4285 wrote:Felons imply someone that has been convicted of a felony. So you are are saying a guy who changed his was and may have commited lets say he commited burglary but did his time he shouldnt make money in the NFL?

In my opinion a guy does a crime that's that once he did his time its over, he's paid his debt to society

I think that any individual that commits and is found guilty of a felony, should not be able to play in the NFL.

Doctors lose their medical licenses
Attorney's lose their Licenses
Financial Professionals lose their trading licenses.

If the other high income professions can lose their licenses for committing such acts, then I think sports figures are no different.

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:09 pm

You heard it her first the broncos are drafting Von Miller... Surprised

by jmojsoski Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:11 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:
Child_Please4285 wrote:Felons imply someone that has been convicted of a felony. So you are are saying a
guy who changed his was and may have commited lets say he commited burglary but did his time he shouldnt make money in the NFL?

In my opinion a guy does a crime that's that once he did his time its over, he's paid his debt to society

I think that any individual that commits and is found guilty of a felony, should not be able to play in the NFL.

Doctors lose their medical licenses
Attorney's lose their Licenses
Financial Professionals lose their trading licenses.

If the other high income professions can lose their licenses for committing such acts, then I think sports figures are no different.

I can agree with this to extent...

by Child_Please4285 Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:13 pm

It's a Game never should a NFL player should be compared to Doctors or Lawyers. Doctors and Lawyers a perfoming a public service. The NFL is pure entertainment

by Fr8trainShane Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:16 pm

Child_Please4285 wrote:It's a Game never should a NFL player should be compared to Doctors or Lawyers. Doctors and Lawyers a perfoming a public service. The NFL is pure entertainment

While this is true.
How would you feel about going around giving most Felon's a million dollars or more? Would you give a child molester access to millions of dollars? How about a murderer?

The attitude and chances to commit further crimes don't change just because they are athletes. A criminal is a criminal. Poor or Wealthy, White or Black. Repeat offenders aren't a rarity.

I'd rather not give an offender a boat load of money to encourage him, and feed the attitude that they are above the law because they can afford the best team of litigators money can buy.

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