Thank God Peyton Hillis beat that bitch Vick.....

Here is my opinion on crimes.

Dog fighting should be a lesser crime than killing someone behind the wheel while drinking and driving... Look at the driver who killed Nick Adenhardt of the Angels... He was sentenced to 51 years in jail because he ran a red light while intoxicated... How can he get 51 years and Stallworth get 2 months... How is this fair?

Last i looked- Speeding was illegal, driving under influence was illegal.

It is funny the opinion of Big Ben vs Kobe... Ask people about Big Ben and they call him a racist and idiot.. Ask people about Kobe and they say, he was never convicted and it was just a girl trying to get paid

I do agree Mike Vick should have a right to work and make a living, the NFL has the right to let him work there with a criminal record. If the NFL said you can not be an employee based on a criminal record or being convicted and had the same rule for ground keepers, officials, announcers, gms, coaches, etc... then so be it..Many companies in America refuse to hire employees based on criminal background and that is not about discrimination.

Most Crimes are done by people with low incomes, while money don't solve everything how many wealthy people Murder,or Steal. Entertainers are there to entertain. Next you will be saying we should care charlie sheen is on drugs, I don't! I watch 2 and a half men then turn the TV off. There money don't matter to me. Like they say..........

What you eat don't make me shit!

Lots of issues being mixed up here.

Whether someone has "paid their debt to society" or not is kind of immaterial in a private industry like the NFL (although how "private" it actually is is another matter when you consider the fact that stadiums are subsidized by tax dollars etc. etc.).
The league can decide what kind of behavior it will tolerate as a private employer as long as they aren't doing so in a way that discriminates based on race, religion, etc.. It isn't unusual (in fact in large companies it is standard) at all for the employer to do a background check before hiring and moreover, to have strict policies in place regarding the hiring of people with a criminal record.

The notion that once you have served your time, everything is (or should) be over doesn't really work, and it isn't reality. The collateral effects of a criminal record are often worse than the sentence received.

I personally think that the public perception of Vick is definitely tied to race, there are white douche-bags who do worse things yet get treated better.
But you also have to realize that starving, choking, and cutting and drowning and torturing and killing and encouraging death matches with dogs is fucking disgusting and stupid and barbaric.
You can't compare it to pest control or hunting. Dogfighting is fucked up. I don't care if it is "cultural". If it is OK in your culture, then that part of your culture is fucked up.
Sometimes political correctness prevents us from seeing right and wrong.

All that being said, I didn't want either of those guys on the cover of M12. Vick has been there already and Hillis is just ok. Txboy also makes a great point that Hillis is a terrible choice for the cover, especially since his agility and speed suck so bad lol. I wonder if this will make the ratings czar overhype Hillis' attributes.

bjcole26 wrote:Here is my opinion on crimes.

Dog fighting should be a lesser crime than killing someone behind the wheel while drinking and driving... Look at the driver who killed Nick Adenhardt of the Angels... He was sentenced to 51 years in jail because he ran a red light while intoxicated... How can he get 51 years and Stallworth get 2 months... How is this fair?

The Driver ran a red light..... the pedestrian in Stallworths case didn't cross legally....if he had crossed legally, he'd be breathing today.

bjcole26 wrote:
It is funny the opinion of Big Ben vs Kobe... Ask people about Big Ben and they call him a racist and idiot.. Ask people about Kobe and they say, he was never convicted and it was just a girl trying to get paid

That is actually one of the best comparisons I've heard..... Never thought about it (probably because I don't watch Basketball).

bjcole26 wrote:
I do agree Mike Vick should have a right to work and make a living, the NFL has the right to let him work there with a criminal record. If the NFL said you can not be an employee based on a criminal record or being convicted and had the same rule for ground keepers, officials, announcers, gms, coaches, etc... then so be it..Many companies in America refuse to hire employees based on criminal background and that is not about discrimination.

I agree completely. Vick did his time, and he absolutely deserves to work and make a living. Just not in the NFL. I'd have no problem with him in the CFL, or the Arena League...just not the NFL. Especially given that he lied to his team, the owner, and the league, numerous times. Also keep in mind, Vick was the FACE of the NFL at the time of his arrest. He had the largest contract in League History, was loaded with Endorsement deals, and more.

agree mblammers that it's fucked up to kill dogs. I was saying it wasn't that big of a deal because i'm used to seeing it. It's not a huge shock to hear about dog fighting. 1 more thing if you guys see how animals are treated in the meat industry you would see it was just as cruel in fact heres a link watch this and tell me how its different.

http://www.meat.org/

Child_Please4285 wrote:Most Crimes are done by people with low incomes, while money don't solve everything how many wealthy people Murder,or Steal. Entertainers are there to entertain. Next you will be saying we should care charlie sheen is on drugs, I don't! I watch 2 and a half men then turn the TV off. There money don't matter to me. Like they say..........

What you eat don't make me shit!

I would argue there is a large network of criminals who are very wealthy. You think the drug overlords aren't responsible for the broke kid peddling coke on the street? Do you think Travis Henry could have afforded to run a cocaine trafficking operation if he wasn't given that kind of money from the NFL?

The face of the NFL what world are you living in that vick was the face of the NFL over Brady and Manning. Yes Vick was a star and had a huge contract but he was never even close to being the face of the NFL

Child_Please4285 wrote: agree mblammers that it's fucked up to kill dogs. I was saying it wasn't that big of a deal because i'm used to seeing it. It's not a huge shock to hear about dog fighting. 1 more thing if you guys see how animals are treated in the meat industry you would see it was just as cruel in fact heres a link watch this and tell me how its different.

http://www.meat.org/

Comparing Dog Fighting to the meat industry? C'mon. One is for consumption, the other is for entertainment.

Not to mention cruelty to dogs, is half a bad day away from being a serial killer. Ask any FBI Profiler.

Travis henery is a small minority plus he has like 30 kids he's not as wealthy as u may think rbs are typically the lowest paid position besides kicker and punter and he never had a huge deal add on child support he probably was going broke which led to him trying to get more money illegally

Child_Please4285 wrote: agree mblammers that it's fucked up to kill dogs. I was saying it wasn't that big of a deal because i'm used to seeing it. It's not a huge shock to hear about dog fighting. 1 more thing if you guys see how animals are treated in the meat industry you would see it was just as cruel in fact heres a link watch this and tell me how its different.

http://www.meat.org/

NO NO NO NO!

I am not going to follow that link. If that makes me a hypocrite so be it, but I refuse to watch anything that might fuck with my appetite for steak.

In all seriousness, I kind of anticipated that argument would come, and I think it is a good one. I'm sure that video is compelling. I can only say that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Also, I at least feed myself with meat. I'm not torturing my cow just for sport.
And bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good.

Killling is killing but the killing part wasn't what i was talking about it was the way the animals are treated before they are killed

lol at blammers

Child_Please4285 wrote:The face of the NFL what world are you living in that vick was the face of the NFL over Brady and Manning. Yes Vick was a star and had a huge contract but he was never even close to being the face of the NFL

Vick was the face of the NFL at that time.
At the of the crime, Vick had gone to the Pro Bowl 3 times, Won an Espy, received the first over $100 million contract in the NFL, surpassing Manning and Brady, he had just rushed for a 1,000 yards, a year prior had been the Madden Cover Child. He was plastered all over the TV in commercials, endorsements (surpassing any other NFL athlete at the time)... He was commonly referred to as the future QB of the league, the definition of how the game was changing, and he was a superior athlete

And you don't think he was the face of the NFL? Seriously?

seriously Vick always was Overated he had a amazing year last year but besides that he had never lived up to the hype and didn't deserve a probowl he was just exciting to watch

Child_Please4285 wrote:seriously Vick always was Overated he had a amazing year last year but besides that he had never lived up to the hype and didn't deserve a probowl he was just exciting to watch

Oh no argument there. I always thought he was exciting to watch, but he couldn't pass for shit, his accuracy was horrid, and he fumbled the ball way too often because he carried it low when scrambling.

But that doesn't change the fact he was the face of the NFL lol

Thanks JMO for letting me know about Von Miller #2 here first... I have only been hearing that for 3 days now...

Vick has always been an exciting player and his days with the Falcons he could carry the team with the Dirty South offense.. his accuracy has always sucked but he did have terrible wrs in Atlanta.

No problem...lol

bjcole26 wrote:
It is funny the opinion of Big Ben vs Kobe... Ask people about Big Ben and they call him a racist and idiot.. Ask people about Kobe and they say, he was never convicted and it was just a girl trying to get paid

I think the situations are a little different. First, I've never heard of Ben being called a racist, and I couldn't really see many NFL players as really being racist, I don't think it's possible for anyone in a team setting that really buys in capable of being racist, but call me naive. Anyway, I think the facts of the Kobe case were different. Kobe is not notorious for partying, getting drunk, or being a socialite of any sort. He's notorious for being a pretentious douchebag who thinks he's better than everyone else..on and off the court. Also, Kobe's image was DESTROYED when it happened. Maybe you guys don't remember, or don't follow the NBA, but he got hit HARD...like Tiger Woods. However, winning a couple championships ruins short term memories, so his sponsorships and fans returned for the most part. Also, it's not like Ben was accused of it once, like Kobe was. Ben was accused of it several times. I think Kobe and Vick are a better comparison. Both fucked up, payed severely for it (more vick than kobe), and as far as we know haven't done anything bad since. Ben fucked up, didn't pay for it, and then kept doing it over and over...and still hasn't really paid for it.

Don't get me wrong...I LOVE Vick as a football player. I DESPISE him as a person...from the little I know about him as a person. Same with Kobe, and Ben. How guys perform their job has nothing to do with them as a person IMO.

On a side note...what do you guys think of Cam Newton? I don't really know or care much about his off-field actions. Some of it sounds shady as hell...but one thing I find interesting is how people describe him. One characteristic I ALWAYS here about him is that he is charming. It's also always used in describing him in a positive light too. However, I find that funny, and idk if it's general knowledge or not...but when I majored in Psych, I had intended to become a profiler, and took a lot of classes about abnormal personalities and things of that nature. One of the BIGGEST traits found in Sociopaths (like serial killers) is that they are charming. So actually, being charming isn't really a positive. It means that you're manipulative, a liar, and very good at getting what you want...but aparently the NFL, coaches, media, and fans don't know that.

I dnt see what everybody sees in CAM... The DUDE was Tebow's back up in college.. And he is on the verge of becoming a top draft pick, maybe... He is not half the player TEBOW was and he might be a higher pick.... UNBELIEVABLE.....

lol tebow back up? in college almost everyone begins as a backup. Sanchez was John David Booty backup. Peyton Manning was 3rd string behind Jerry Colquitt, and Todd Helton (Who). Even tebow was Chris Leak Backup. But Cam has way more upside than tebow, stronger arm, more athletic, bigger.

With that being said i don't like Cam either reminds me 2 much of VY.

Cheddah_Cheez wrote:On a side note...what do you guys think of Cam Newton? I don't really know or care much about his off-field actions. Some of it sounds shady as hell...but one thing I find interesting is how people describe him. One characteristic I ALWAYS here about him is that he is charming. It's also always used in describing him in a positive light too. However, I find that funny, and idk if it's general knowledge or not...but when I majored in Psych, I had intended to become a profiler, and took a lot of classes about abnormal personalities and things of that nature. One of the BIGGEST traits found in Sociopaths (like serial killers) is that they are charming. So actually, being charming isn't really a positive. It means that you're manipulative, a liar, and very good at getting what you want...but aparently the NFL, coaches, media, and fans don't know that.

I think Akili Smith, I mean Cam Newton, is immature, unproven (1 year doesn't mean anything), I think he has horrible decision making skills, and I think without question he sold his services to Auburn....

It was money well spent for Auburn... I am not sure how Cam Newton is going to be the 1st pick of the draft. On tools of being a professional qb, i see many flaws.. As far as an athlete, YES he is one of the best athletes in the draft.

Next, Cheddah mentioned Big Ben has been accused of rape "several" times... Definition of several is 1. Being of a number more than two or three but not many..... Big Ben has been accused twice... NOT SEVERAL

Kobe was accused of Rape one and now rumors of being served with paternity papers at halftime of a game.. Funny how Laker fans forget the rape, forget Kobe demanded a trade from the Lakers in 2007 and is not the model citizen or teammate... He is NO MJ!!!!!. Again i compared to show the difference in public opinion of Kobe vs Big Ben and Cheddah proved the point perfectly... Kobe gets a pass now because he has won championships!

Truthfully, Vick sucked so badly until this past year.

bjcole26 wrote:It was money well spent for Auburn... I am not sure how Cam Newton is going to be the 1st pick of the draft. On tools of being a professional qb, i see many flaws.. As far as an athlete, YES he is one of the best athletes in the draft.

Next, Cheddah mentioned Big Ben has been accused of rape "several" times... Definition of several is 1. Being of a number more than two or three but not many..... Big Ben has been accused twice... NOT SEVERAL

Kobe was accused of Rape one and now rumors of being served with paternity papers at halftime of a game.. Funny how Laker fans forget the rape, forget Kobe demanded a trade from the Lakers in 2007 and is not the model citizen or teammate... He is NO MJ!!!!!. Again i compared to show the difference in public opinion of Kobe vs Big Ben and Cheddah proved the point perfectly... Kobe gets a pass now because he has won championships!

Lol since when did this become a grammar class? Excuse me for my errant use of several...I meant a couple (which means 2).

As far as the MJ comparison...they're very much the same. The only difference is the rape. Other than that, Kobe cheated on his wife. So did MJ. Kobe is a perfectionist. So was MJ. Kobe is hard on his teammates. So was MJ (Many of MJ's teammates didn't like him in the same way many of Kobe's teammates don't like him...and for the same reasons). Kobe is in his 15th year, seeking his 6th championship. Jordan played for 15 years and won 6 championships.

I think Jordan is better. But Kobe is the next best IMO. Kobe had better teams than MJ. I think Kobe has a better jumper than MJ did. But MJ was a much better defender, for a longer period of time, than Kobe is. Kobe is a little more creative in his shots than MJ was, I think he makes a lot more difficult shots than MJ did, but that's because he takes more crazy shots too.

I'm also NOT a Laker fan, I'm actually a Celtic fan, so I hate the lakers AND kobe. But at the same time, you gotta give recognition where it's due, and Kobe is the 2nd best player in NBA history.