The Future of the MG?

Lol once again I don't articulate myself well enough.

I wasn't saying DW is the only major franchise to start right away...I just named his as the one that is DEFINITELY starting right away. The reason I wanted to stagger them is so that new guys would have a chance to draft their own team once they've been proven. Again, poor communication on my part. Apologies.

Another idea I was brainstorming was the league format for major leagues. Kind of like a recipe to run a successful league so anyone considering getting into running Major or minor leagues knows what they're getting into beforehand...that I think should be MANDATORY for anyone who wants to commish. I don't know it all but I think a good starting point for a major league would be something like this:

Awards (Potw & End of season)
Stats (XFN...if it's free next year. Otherwise Some kind of stat updates like top 5 offense/defense)
Communication (Daily messages to all players who haven't played games)
Activity (A commish should be trying to get on the forum daily...at the least every other day)

I probably forgot stuff or don't know stuff yet but that's a short list.

I think capping the number of franchises is a great idea. However, I have one concern. Due to the time commitment involved, I am only in one leageue (surf's) however I am an extremely active member. I would hope that for 12, only having played in one franchise in 11 doesn't put me at a disadvantage for getting a spot in one of the major ones.

Mcnair2wycheck wrote:I think capping the number of franchises is a great idea. However, I have one concern. Due to the time commitment involved, I am only in one leageue (surf's) however I am an extremely active member. I would hope that for 12, only having played in one franchise in 11 doesn't put me at a disadvantage for getting a spot in one of the major ones.

I can't say for sure...but if it was up to me (it's not) everyone that was in a franchise this year who's commish is willing to vouch for them should be given a chance at a major franchise without needing to be in a minor league.

Of course 2 major franchises (DW and Mine) are going to have limited openings. I'm gonna give all my guys who stick with me for the long run the opportunity to rejoin before I consider any MG vets from other MG leagues, and then after that I might take in a new guy or 2...but it probably won't get that far down.

Oh oh! I wanna be in a major one!

BiLlDoZeR_27 wrote:Oh oh! I wanna be in a major one!

No.

I had an idea that is totally radical and I'd love to try, but it'd take 64 owners, not 32.

You take the best 32 owners and put them in league A. Other 32 owners in league B. Run both leagues at the same pace. At draft time, you take the players drafting 29-32 in B (the 4 that made the championship game) and they switch with the players drafting 1-4 in league A (the 4 worst records). 29 switches 1, 30 gets 2, SB loser gets 3, SB winner gets 4. Object is to get into A, stay in A, and win A. You'd certainly avoid tanking in A anyway, lol.

@chedda:i like the idea of starting chz lg later just because like this year it resparked interest for alot of guys. it's a good thing to have as kinda a jump start when guys start to get bored or w/e but i def think it should start earlier before it did this year.

@delmas: i know DW has a waitlist for his league but considering he just said two teams resigned maybe you should talk to him about taking one of them over.

@mblammers: you are a real legit and upstanding guy in the community and you never hear anything bad about you. i think for this season we are pretty set with GC members considering there isnt much to do, but prior to the release of madden 12, we will have sign ups for the GC in which myself, and hopefully others currently in the GC will take time to read over your so called "resume" for the position. i'm really gonna try to involve the GC in more decisions next year so a bigger core of quality guys will be crucial.

also i don't know what my schedule will be as far as school goes next year but i'm guessing it will be similar to now so i don't have loads of excess time so i don't plan on running a league of my own, before chz lg got off it's feet i talked to chedda saying that we could run a league together next year but chz lg obviously doesn't need help the way it's exploded on the scene. so i think i will talk to FF and maybe we can run one together, the new vip league that can advance everyday. the minor leagues will definitely help keep the league more active so we can accomplish advancing everyday without having more than 1 or 2 games simmed or having to extend.

as far as having the same setting - we are never going to agree there - guys that pass heavy all day will want accel clock on - guys the run heavy all day will want accel clock off... I dont see a way around this - we have debated this to were blue in the face -= if you dont like playing in a Non accel clock LG or accel clock LG - u dont have to join that paticular LG...

Lots of good stuff guys, i agree with most of your points.

bjcole26 wrote:, i would hope that all leagues would be on the same pages as far as rules and even advancing. I think some of the owners loose interest in leagues because 4 and 5 days go by with no advancement. Maybe we say ALL leagues advance in 48 hours and if we do have different times, make it a set time like 72 hours with no exceptions.

there is a set rule for advancing LGs within the MG - we advance every 48 hours as long as particpation is over 70% - if its less than 70% an extra day is given to p^lay your game...

i think this is working well for our 5-6 big lg current structure... The 2 headline Lg (chz and DW consistantly advance every 48 hours - which is great) - and the other LGs have been advancing every 72 hours - and if you are in 5 LGs - this works out that if you average 1-2 gfames every nite YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM GETTING ALL YOUR GAMES IN... I have never had a particpation rate less than 90% - not once ion 4 season - it takes 3 days to get the games in whcih i am cool with -= but te games get played...

btw... 1 LG that never gets any props but i thouroughly enjoy playn in is bigmullets LG - bigmullets certainly has his quirks - but he is consistant with enforcing MG rules and he even takes it a step forward and enforces the informal Madden Ettiquette that i wrote up - His LG is always full (despite being not supported by all the `ussual` players within the MG) - he is the 1 commish that if he has a vacancy - and he can fill with a MG member - great! but if he doesnt find a MG member tight away, he `pounds the pavement` and finds players himself - i give him big credit for that....

Delmas26 wrote:I think you could easily have 2 major franchises right off the bat. Several owners like myself...aren't even in deathwish...and it sounds like he's keeping his same core. So, while I consider myself one of the best 32 owners...I'd be left out of the major franchises. I doubt I'm the only one. I bet theirs 10-15 quality veteran owners not in deathwish. So, while I tend to like the Minor League idea...I still think you need at least 2 core major franchises.

Delmas makes a great point here too - there are a lot of fantastic members that play their games consistantly that are not in CHZ or DW lg - what that means is guys like myself must make more of an effort to providing the content that DW and CHZ do next season so that our LGs can meet the standard they have set...

just gotta throw my 2 cents in here lol idk if its been said already cuz i kinda skimmed through the first 2 pages and didnt see this idea anywhere but instead of limiting the amount of new MG members, how about kicking some of the bums out... seems to me, guys always pack up n leave b4 they are asked to... i think if maybe a few legit (meaning guys who dont cheat or cheese their way through games) guys were booted from the group for dropping outta franchises without a valid reason, or for not playing enough games, well it might stop others from snaggin a team, drafting it, and then dropping em a month later cuz they missed a couple rookie drafts or the competition is too tough... right now it seems to be a free-for-all... join as many franchises as humanly possible and cross your fingers, hoping to get your games in lol i really like the idea of limiting the number of franchises... whoever it was that posted that "madden had the right idea by limiting it to 5 franchises per player" was absolutely right... i barely had time for the 3 i was in, and i play quite a bit... some guys are in 7, or 8 franchises... thats way too much to handle, even for the most hardcore gamer... but then again, some guys eat, sleep and breath madden all day long lol

[quote="Cheddah_Cheez"][quote="mblammers"]

falconfansince81 wrote:i tMore importantly we need to figure out how to stagger the major franchises. DW's should be off the bat. I'd also like mine to start right away....

i can see this as an issue already - all of the `major commishes`are going to want to start their franchises ASAP - i know i dont want to wait a month or even a week to start mine - (although if a week was asked of me i would wait that long for the goodof the MG) - i am sure most of the commishes will feel that way - especially if they have 32 players committed to their LG before the game is released (which i am certain will be the case for the existing LGs that are running right now)! If you have your 32 members - what would the point of making them wait for a month to start? its not going to get any `later joiners` or minor LG players into your LG ahead of any1 who committed to it previoys to them...


Considering that all the existing LGs will be filled before the release of the game - perhaps having a predetermined cap on franchise is not the best idea - we need the flexibility to start another LG if the `minor LG` are filled with solid players that would be welcome in any LG (and the only thing preventing them form joining one of the `major LGs` is the availability of a team...

perhaps the focus never should be capping the amount of franchises that are available - THATS SUPPLYSIDE ECONOMICS - and Regean showed that doesnt work - the war on drugs show that doesnt work - what the key is always is DEMAND - (and i am not talkn through my ass on this - my undergrad is in ECONOMICS)...

If we cap the / of franhises a player can join - that in turn is going to limit the number franchises that are available - If we have enough guys show promise through the MINOR LEAGUE system are we just going to let them rot down there because we reached our MAJOR FRANCHISE QUOTA? That makes no sense - and there is a reason why `reaganomics` sucked - because it was a bad idea (good on paper but didnt consider all parts of the equation)

GREENERRRR wrote:perhaps the focus never should be capping the amount of franchises that are available - THATS SUPPLYSIDE ECONOMICS - and Regean showed that doesnt work - the war on drugs show that doesnt work - what the key is always is DEMAND - (and i am not talkn through my ass on this - my undergrad is in ECONOMICS)...

If we cap the / of franhises a player can join - that in turn is going to limit the / of franchises that there should be available - If we have enough guys show promise through the MINOR LEAGUE system are we just going to let them rot down there because we reached our MAJOR FRANCHISE QUOTA? That makes no sense - and there is a reason why reaganomics sucked - because it was a bad idea (good on paper but diudnt consider all parts of the equation)

Valid Points...but more importantly we should want quality franchises to represent our group. When we allow more and more franchises to be created, it gives guys an incentive to leave franchises to start over new teams...it happened tons this year. That then leaves their old teams to be filled, as you said yourself, guys don't wanna take over teams than didn't draft, which creates an endless cycle of franchises with empty teams that no one wants and guys leaving franchises to join new ones. If we simply cap how many a member can join, what's to stop them from making a new login and joining more? If we cap the availability as well as the number you can join then we can stop all that.

Furthermore, I don't think we should let just ANYONE commish a league. Just because a guy plays all their games doesn't mean they should be running a league. We need to have a criteria on exactly what commissioners HAVE to do in order to run a league. Anyone can organize 32 guys for a draft, send out a message when the league advances, and play all their games, but that league's going to fail. I think our goal for next year should be to minimize the number of leagues that fail and get more QUALITY players

In order to do that we need to look at why so many leagues failed this season. Those reasons were lack of commissioner effort, lack of interest by the players (which ties into lack of commissioner effort), guys leaving to join new franchises, and too many people breaking or not following rules.

How do we solve those problems?

Lack of interest by the players

We know what interests guys based on the leagues that are strongest: Some want stats, some want game summaries, some want forum activity, some want scouting reports. So the obvious course is that Anyone who wants to run a major franchise must be willing to provide ALL of those things. More importantly, doing all that shit takes a lot of time, which is why a lot of guys who took on the responsibility of running a league were unable to run it right...they didn't forsee the time required for all of that (not saying it's a bad reflection on them, just saying they weren't cut out for it because they had bigger priorities to attend to, which is OK).

Lack of Commissioner Effort

Some people just shouldn't run leagues. If you're not willing to commit to SEVERAL MONTHS of messaging 31 other guys literally every day, making sure you are on top of guys to play their games EVERY DAY, dealing with people bitching about this that and the other EVERY DAY. Then you shouldn't run a league. If you have a busy work schedule, or a work schedule that fluctuates between sort of busy and extremely busy...you probably shouldn't run a league (unless you know someone reliable that is willing to help you). If you can't get on your PS3 for extended periods of time, or can't be active on the forums...you probably shouldn't run a league. There's NOTHING wrong with any of that stuff, but for the sake of the group and the sake of the group's growth, there's no point in starting a league if you simply can't commit to it...especially during the times you don't want to. All failed leagues do is deter guys from joining the group and make the group look bad.

Guys Leaving Franchises to Join New Ones
You can say that the cap on how many franchises a guy can join will stop this problem. It won't, as long as there are new franchises being created, guys will find ways to break our cap rule to join them. There's tons of ways around that. The only way we can stop it is by limiting the number of franchises. There's nothing wrong with limiting ourselves. Actually, it's the SMART thing to do. You won't see any company taking on more work than they can handle. You don't see schools taking more students than they can fit. Teams don't take on more players than they can coach. In the instances those things do happen, chaos unfolds...that's when things get out of hand and franchises start failing. There is NOTHING wrong with limiting ourselves. The outcome will be the quality guys will stay, take over teams and prove themselves. In next year's "Class" of new players we get, out of the loyal and legit guys, we'll probably get some guys who can handle commish responsibilities, so by Madden 13, we will be able to handle more Major franchises than we will with the upcoming season....from that "class" we'll prob get some more commissioners, leading to even more major franchises in Madden 14. THAT's how you grow the group. You don't just let a million people in all at once, and then accomodate them with an inferior product (weak franchises). Furthermore, If we stagger the leagues...I'd say the 5th major league will start late November/Early December, which still leaves plenty of time for 5 or 6 seasons...and how many LEGIT players have we gotten into the group since late November/Early December? Not many...

Guys breaking/not following rules
I think the rule revisions, minor leagues, and commissioner communication can solve that.

How about an 'entry league'? Start a league where anyone who joins up to the MG automatically goes. As soon as it is full, we start it (stock rosters probably). As openings come up in existing leagues, people from the entry league join. After the SB in the entry league, everyone who has gotten a team in an existing league drops out of the entry, and the openings are filled with new players. You could ban trading and limit free agency in order to ensure that none of the teams becomes 'unplayable', or just start a new league after each SB and not move on to season 2, it'd basically just be a proving ground to get people used to scheduling games, playing sim, and following our rules.

phantomshark wrote:How about an 'entry league'? Start a league where anyone who joins up to the MG automatically goes. As soon as it is full, we start it (stock rosters probably). As openings come up in existing leagues, people from the entry league join. After the SB in the entry league, everyone who has gotten a team in an existing league drops out of the entry, and the openings are filled with new players. You could ban trading and limit free agency in order to ensure that none of the teams becomes 'unplayable', it'd basically just be a proving ground to get people used to scheduling games, playing sim, and following our rules.

Definitely a great idea...But that's the point of the minor leagues. They're only set to run about 2 seasons AND they give guys the chance to build their own team rather than using stock rosters

In the set of rules, can we also get clarification of discplinary actions when owners are found to be breaking the rules... I.E.. an owner doing the IOR or cheesing with the qb like jmo did in team play (Of course he would call it drifting) or calling timeout under 2 mins... I think this would help too because then owners would know what to expect if they were a cheeser. (3 strikes you are out maybe)

bjcole26 wrote:In the set of rules, can we also get clarification of discplinary actions when owners are found to be breaking the rules... I.E.. an owner doing the IOR or cheesing with the qb like jmo did in team play (Of course he would call it drifting) or calling timeout under 2 mins... I think this would help too because then owners would know what to expect if they were a cheeser. (3 strikes you are out maybe)

YES ! lol im a big fan of the 3 strike rule lol like i said in that last post... ive been in the group for ahwile and i cant remember the last guy that got kicked... most of the time they get called out on the rules they break repeatedly until they get sick of getting "called out" so they quit themselves... i say set a few examples

bjcole26 wrote:In the set of rules, can we also get clarification of discplinary actions when owners are found to be breaking the rules... I.E.. an owner doing the IOR or cheesing with the qb like jmo did in team play (Of course he would call it drifting) or calling timeout under 2 mins... I think this would help too because then owners would know what to expect if they were a cheeser. (3 strikes you are out maybe)

Also a great idea. I think standardizing the penalties of breaking rules should be univesal just as the rules are. However, I also think penalties for breaking rules with proof should be different than regular complaints are

@Greenerrr and cheedah when ever i have a dissertation to write i know who 2 come 2 for help

Child_Please4285 wrote:@Greenerrr and cheedah when ever i have a dissertation to write i know who 2 come 2 for help

Lol I try and explain things as basic as possible so everyone can understand exactly what I'm trying to say. If I don't the message gets lost and people say the same things or ask the same questions over and over...usually takes a lot of words to do that

Cheddah_Cheez wrote:

GREENERRRR wrote:perhaps the focus never should be capping the amount of franchises that are available - THATS SUPPLYSIDE ECONOMICS - and Regean showed that doesnt work - the war on drugs show that doesnt work - what the key is always is DEMAND - (and i am not talkn through my ass on this - my undergrad is in ECONOMICS)...

If we cap the / of franhises a player can join - that in turn is going to limit the / of franchises that there should be available - If we have enough guys show promise through the MINOR LEAGUE system are we just going to let them rot down there because we reached our MAJOR FRANCHISE QUOTA? That makes no sense - and there is a reason why reaganomics sucked - because it was a bad idea (good on paper but diudnt consider all parts of the equation)

Valid Points...but more importantly we should want quality franchises to represent our group. When we allow more and more franchises to be created, it gives guys an incentive to leave franchises to start over new teams...it happened tons this year. That then leaves their old teams to be filled, as you said yourself, guys don't wanna take over teams than didn't draft, which creates an endless cycle of franchises with empty teams that no one wants and guys leaving franchises to join new ones. If we simply cap how many a member can join, what's to stop them from making a new login and joining more? If we cap the availability as well as the number you can join then we can stop all that.

Furthermore, I don't think we should let just ANYONE commish a league. Just because a guy plays all their games doesn't mean they should be running a league. We need to have a criteria on exactly what commissioners HAVE to do in order to run a league. Anyone can organize 32 guys for a draft, send out a message when the league advances, and play all their games, but that league's going to fail. I think our goal for next year should be to minimize the number of leagues that fail and get more QUALITY players

In order to do that we need to look at why so many leagues failed this season. Those reasons were lack of commissioner effort, lack of interest by the players (which ties into lack of commissioner effort), guys leaving to join new franchises, and too many people breaking or not following rules.

How do we solve those problems?

Lack of interest by the players

We know what interests guys based on the leagues that are strongest: Some want stats, some want game summaries, some want forum activity, some want scouting reports. So the obvious course is that Anyone who wants to run a major franchise must be willing to provide ALL of those things. More importantly, doing all that shit takes a lot of time, which is why a lot of guys who took on the responsibility of running a league were unable to run it right...they didn't forsee the time required for all of that (not saying it's a bad reflection on them, just saying they weren't cut out for it because they had bigger priorities to attend to, which is OK).

Lack of Commissioner Effort

Some people just shouldn't run leagues. If you're not willing to commit to SEVERAL MONTHS of messaging 31 other guys literally every day, making sure you are on top of guys to play their games EVERY DAY, dealing with people bitching about this that and the other EVERY DAY. Then you shouldn't run a league. If you have a busy work schedule, or a work schedule that fluctuates between sort of busy and extremely busy...you probably shouldn't run a league (unless you know someone reliable that is willing to help you). If you can't get on your PS3 for extended periods of time, or can't be active on the forums...you probably shouldn't run a league. There's NOTHING wrong with any of that stuff, but for the sake of the group and the sake of the group's growth, there's no point in starting a league if you simply can't commit to it...especially during the times you don't want to. All failed leagues do is deter guys from joining the group and make the group look bad.

Guys Leaving Franchises to Join New Ones
You can say that the cap on how many franchises a guy can join will stop this problem. It won't, as long as there are new franchises being created, guys will find ways to break our cap rule to join them. There's tons of ways around that. The only way we can stop it is by limiting the number of franchises. There's nothing wrong with limiting ourselves. Actually, it's the SMART thing to do. You won't see any company taking on more work than they can handle. You don't see schools taking more students than they can fit. Teams don't take on more players than they can coach. In the instances those things do happen, chaos unfolds...that's when things get out of hand and franchises start failing. There is NOTHING wrong with limiting ourselves. The outcome will be the quality guys will stay, take over teams and prove themselves. In next year's "Class" of new players we get, out of the loyal and legit guys, we'll probably get some guys who can handle commish responsibilities, so by Madden 13, we will be able to handle more Major franchises than we will with the upcoming season....from that "class" we'll prob get some more commissioners, leading to even more major franchises in Madden 14. THAT's how you grow the group. You don't just let a million people in all at once, and then accomodate them with an inferior product (weak franchises). Furthermore, If we stagger the leagues...I'd say the 5th major league will start late November/Early December, which still leaves plenty of time for 5 or 6 seasons...and how many LEGIT players have we gotten into the group since late November/Early December? Not many...

Guys breaking/not following rules
I think the rule revisions, minor leagues, and commissioner communication can solve that.

my point is simple - dont box yourself in a corner - give MG the flexibility to grow and flourish AS NEEDED - if we have 50+ fantastic LEGIT - ACTIVE new players that are flourishing in our minor LGs - we shouldnt pegion hole ourselves to say that we cant make another MAJOR franchise - what will happen is that thise 50+ guys will get sick of being in the `minors`and we would risk losing them... It could be simple as - we have a set number of LGs - and we dont create another MAJOR LG until certain condistions are met (conditions like we hav a prooven pool of 40 LEGIT and ACTIVE members that are in 2 or less MAJOR LGs and want to particpate in another MAJOR LG)...

In addition - lets do a somequick top of my head math - lets say there is 65 guys in the MG that are solid guys that it would be acceptable for them to pârticpate in a `Major LG`- a few will join 1, a couple will join 2, many will join 3-5... but for arguement sake we will jsut say guiys will avg 3 lgs... if we limit ourselves to say DW, surf, CHZ, GRNR1, mjkight, FF - that leaves 190 teams to join in those LGs - we wont even have enough LGs for these guys to join!!!! and that 65 person number is only going to increase - weather u embrace itor not - i am sure i will get 10-15 great solid NEW gamers that fit LEGIT an ACTIVE player mold from the MLBTSG - and i bet we get 5 minimum from the MLB the Sho EFFECT (Legit players that have their killed by the SHOW and want to continue playn Madden through the summer - they will flock to the MG like they did when COD was released - and i am sure we will get 1-2 random joiners who just happned to find us over the summer)- all of sdden - we dont have enough spots for every1 who deserves a spot...

so the point is - and it makes total sense - NEVER PEGION HOLE YOURSELF - give yourself the flexiblity to adapt and change - i think making a SET CRITERIA of conditions that warrant this expansion is the key - but sayn their should only be a certain number of Major francises REAGARDLEEWS OF THE NUMBER OF LEGIUT AND ACTIUVE PLAYERS WE HAVE AVAILABLE makes no sense to me...

Of course any and all LGs major need competent and committed commishes - that goes without saying... and if we cant find that person thena a LG cant be made - simple as that...

Lastly - I dont think any of the current members will try to circumvent the sign up proccess or a threshold of maximum LGs i think all the MG players see that being in more than 5 Online Franchises is tuff to do - even with my availability which is unprescidented - i let go of SURF`s LG... we wont need to convince current membrs about the 5 LG threshold... besides - its easy to enforce this rule - 99% of the players post their cell number - just program mmbers numbers in your phone - Mos3kid made a 2nd id (Greeners Wife - my GF loved that - she isnt allowed in my gaming room meanwhile there was some1 in the MG with the moniker `Greeners Wife` - small shit strom for me there` - but io was able to discover it when he tried to text me as `Greeners wife` and it showed up Mos3kid... the other fail safe method of policing the 1 id or 5 LG rule is through the ISP address - one ofthe great resources of our current message board is that all members ISP are easily documented - so if u made a 2nd id - it could be easily compared to existing profiles with ISP adresses that match - hell we could even give 1 person the sole job of creating a database of every1`s ISP address and cell number (top only be viewed by commishes if you like) and with a simple spreadsheet program we can search any ISP adress du^plication or cell / duplication - that could be a job for some1 that doesnt want to take on a leadership role in the MG - but has 2-3 hours to initially set up the data base an 5-10 minutes every day to update it as needed - i am sure their are plenty members tha would have that availability and would prefer a `behind the scenes`role` like this (which is not in the limelight- but is important nevertheless)

The key to my point above is creating the right conditions that trigger a MAJOR LG expansion - if these conditions are SOLID - than we have no worries... determing the conditions is critical