another nfl 2k game?

go here and get excited like me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdx3eHG3srA

This whole NFL 2K love is absolutely insane.
The game was loaded with flaws, and didn't have any kind of following, as a matter of fact, people actually hated the game.
They liked the voice overs compared to Madden, but the game experience was HORRID compared to Madden.
This was all generally accepted.... until it went away.

Then it became this Cult craze.....

No matter which game they come out with.....they are both going to be loaded with flaws. The only difference was, the 2k games weren't around during the YouTube days for people to tear it up like they do with Madden.

NFL 2K was horrible, no one loved it until it was gone, now everyone misses it?

there is a cult about nfl 2k. the thing is though honestly in 2008 when this game came out the same techology is available today and isnt in madden. fundamental issues that would make madden way better. all pro football 2k8 was terrible graphically. i have played it before and honestly the throws u can make in all pro football 2k8 u cant in madden. its the fundamental things in the 2k football game that isnt in madden which is y ppl are flocking back to it as a reference. and if 2k sports had the finances EA has then they could compete. with activision getting involved they have the financial back up but they dont have the license.

i personally hated 2k but i like the idea of them coming out with something just so EA will step there game up because of the competition. i think they learned by the death of NBA Live... i don't think they'll let that happen to madden, or atleast i hope not.

i bought both 2k and madden 05 as they were both the pinnacle of football games, 2k had the better presentation but maddens franchise mode was a lot deeper. i loved the gameplay of both games and still wait to see it return...

what 2k has always done right, is EXPRESS SIMULATION FOOTBALL...within the oline, within consecutive hit tackles, within momentum and strength and especially within different player styles.

take a look at this video comparing adrian peterson to chris johnson, not only do you not see CJ breaking 6 tackles or putting DT's down with one hand, you actually see his style of running versus AP's more power style. this is something madden CANNOT express, every runner has the same style whereas in 2k8 you see and FEEL the difference very clearly. so would i be excited to get back to simulation football? damn right.

bigbuddah wrote:there is a cult about nfl 2k. the thing is though honestly in 2008 when this game came out the same techology is available today and isnt in madden. fundamental issues that would make madden way better. all pro football 2k8 was terrible graphically. i have played it before and honestly the throws u can make in all pro football 2k8 u cant in madden. its the fundamental things in the 2k football game that isnt in madden which is y ppl are flocking back to it as a reference. and if 2k sports had the finances EA has then they could compete. with activision getting involved they have the financial back up but they dont have the license.

The real problem is that when comparing the 2, they use slow motion replays, and they only look at things on a per play basis.
NFL2K was littered with issues (more than Madden by far).
However, once the advent of YouTube came around, people started dissecting 1 play on 2K where a realistic situation occurred, but they completely dismiss the facts that the rest of the game was garbage.

You could do the same with Madden. Basically ignore all the bad things, and find what Madden does really well, then make a video about how good it looks, and talk about how bad it was in the other games. (thats exactly what the 2k guys do).

Unfortunately for those guys, its not really about the game....its about getting Views on YouTube to market other products, and because the Madden fan base is so large, and passionate, they know they will get followers.

Fr8trainShane wrote:

bigbuddah wrote:there is a cult about nfl 2k. the thing is though honestly in 2008 when this game came out the same techology is available today and isnt in madden. fundamental issues that would make madden way better. all pro football 2k8 was terrible graphically. i have played it before and honestly the throws u can make in all pro football 2k8 u cant in madden. its the fundamental things in the 2k football game that isnt in madden which is y ppl are flocking back to it as a reference. and if 2k sports had the finances EA has then they could compete. with activision getting involved they have the financial back up but they dont have the license.

The real problem is that when comparing the 2, they use slow motion replays, and they only look at things on a per play basis.
NFL2K was littered with issues (more than Madden by far).
However, once the advent of YouTube came around, people started dissecting 1 play on 2K where a realistic situation occurred, but they completely dismiss the facts that the rest of the game was garbage.

You could do the same with Madden. Basically ignore all the bad things, and find what Madden does really well, then make a video about how good it looks, and talk about how bad it was in the other games. (thats exactly what the 2k guys do).

Unfortunately for those guys, its not really about the game....its about getting Views on YouTube to market other products, and because the Madden fan base is so large, and passionate, they know they will get followers.

then why isn't there? in my vid above its just 2k8 replays of chris johnson and adrian peterson, and it actually simulates the difference of two different running styles. CJ actually has to slow down to wide juke, where in madden you can ice-skate around defenders without losing a step thanks to locomotion.

falconfansince81 wrote:

take a look at this video comparing adrian peterson to chris johnson, not only do you not see CJ breaking 6 tackles or putting DT's down with one hand, you actually see his style of running versus AP's more power style. this is something madden CANNOT express, every runner has the same style whereas in 2k8 you see and FEEL the difference very clearly. so would i be excited to get back to simulation football? damn right.

FF, the major difference in that video, and the reason why you see the different styles is simple. ALL of CJ's runs in the video go to the outside. ALL of APs runs go up the middle.

Notice they don't show CJ running up the middle, or AP running to the outside.... its because it would look the same.

falconfansince81 wrote:

then why isn't there? in my vid above its just 2k8 replays of chris johnson and adrian peterson, and it actually simulates the difference of two different running styles. CJ actually has to slow down to wide juke, where in madden you can ice-skate around defenders without losing a step thanks to locomotion.

Its not out there because that would defeat the purpose of the guys trying to market something. Marketing 101, Promotion 101, is you focus on a negative, and exploit it. Same reason when you watch the news, they always start off with the bad news first.... it draws people in.

cj didn't truck through 2 or 3 defenders though is the point, of course he ran him to the edge thats where he's best. AP is as you said great north n south, but when CJ got wrapped up in that video he didn't just break through 4 pro-tak defenders or bull people over. is it glaring? no, but its evident to me. and i think fundamental details define simulation, there are certain boundaries in the 2k series that confines players to realism whereas in madden there isn't. i saw sproles stiff arm ty warren last night...put him on his back. c'mon...thats unacceptable.

and whos trying to market 2k? there is no 2k football anymore, there won't be so long as EA has the license. those guys don't get paid to do it, they do it because they show what 2k did right and what madden does wrong...so take what 2k did and apply it. simple as that, but people want to interpret it as bashing madden when really its for the sake of improving the game. fact is, no one wants to listen and just gets overly defensive for whatever reason...

ok, this will explain my point...its a short video...and its says everything i've been preaching about since madden 08.

FF what game was being played in that video? Couldn't have been 2k5 bc if that was 2k5 ea should really be ashamed. Just from a blocking standpoint that game is better than madden now. The blockers actively looked for the right man to block and it didn't seem prescripted. In the cj segments (especiallythe run around 3:13) you can see linemen almost seeing the play unfold and blocking down rather than just running upfield. Blockers were always in the right spot ad when there was a man near them they hit them, unlike in madden where u can have a blocker almost running on top of a defender but not making contact.

You cam also see the distinct difference between cj and AP. Cj was able to dart around defenders and pretty much run circles like he does in real life while AP was just beast mode running through guys and breaking arm tackles. I also liked how they captured the acceleration of the two backs too. Also, the multiple hits were amazing. There were arm tackles, solid hits, everything.

falconfansince81 wrote:cj didn't truck through 2 or 3 defenders though is the point, of course he ran him to the edge thats where he's best. AP is as you said great north n south, but when CJ got wrapped up in that video he didn't just break through 4 pro-tak defenders or bull people over. is it glaring? no, but its evident to me. and i think fundamental details define simulation, there are certain boundaries in the 2k series that confines players to realism whereas in madden there isn't. i saw sproles stiff arm ty warren last night...put him on his back. c'mon...thats unacceptable.

and whos trying to market 2k? there is no 2k football anymore, there won't be so long as EA has the license. those guys don't get paid to do it, they do it because they show what 2k did right and what madden does wrong...so take what 2k did and apply it. simple as that, but people want to interpret it as bashing madden when really its for the sake of improving the game. fact is, no one wants to listen and just gets overly defensive for whatever reason...

The thing is FF, if you play the game enough (and I still have it), you will see CJ do the exact same things as AP, and AP do the exact same things as CJ. They pick and chose plays to put in these videos. They cherry pick plays to support an argument.

As far as marketing.... You of course realize that YouTube is one of the largest social network marketing sites on the planet? The guy who posted the video you showed us, has a link to his website where people are encouraged to donate. He has a podcast that has occasional sponsorships (and others donate prizes that he gives away)....its a money making venture.

Just as a lot of the guys who post Madden videos sell EBooks.

For the record fr8. There are cj runs up the middle in the video. 3 from what I remember: in one he takes it up the middle and cuts it outside when he gets to the second level, one he takes it up the middle and makes a couple moves to get a 7 or 8 yd gain, and another one that gets outside. Same for AP. He gets a few tosses and off tackle runs. They didn't look the same to me. AP was much more head down stiff arm downhill running while cj was sharp cuts change of direction speed rumning

it was all pro football 2k8 cheddah, and i'm glad you can see the entire structure of football play out as well as the difference in running styles. of course you see some of the same moves, you do in NFL as well but its how they run (acceleration and agility) that separates the players.

the guy you refer to shane, ryan moody works 2 jobs and does a podcast in his free time. there are like 6 others who contribute videos to show EA where they need to improve. how you take this as a bad thing is beyond me, the fact people are so complacent is the reason the game is just a bunch of canned animations that void 75% of the ratings and essentially insult the game of football. the game i love, and the game that used to be represented a lot better by both EA and 2k.

nfl 2k5 or 2k8 regardless the technology and engines they used then isnt in madden today. small little things like that would make madden 5x better and they arent doing it. we suffer caus it is the only football game out there. the fact that they are so exclusive makes them responsible to putting out the best game. they dont have to beat anyone or compete against anyone so we get games like what we have now. they need to fix it.

falconfansince81 wrote:it was all pro football 2k8 cheddah, and i'm glad you can see the entire structure of football play out as well as the difference in running styles. of course you see some of the same moves, you do in NFL as well but its how they run (acceleration and agility) that separates the players.

the guy you refer to shane, ryan moody works 2 jobs and does a podcast in his free time. there are like 6 others who contribute videos to show EA where they need to improve. how you take this as a bad thing is beyond me, the fact people are so complacent is the reason the game is just a bunch of canned animations that void 75% of the ratings and essentially insult the game of football. the game i love, and the game that used to be represented a lot better by both EA and 2k.

Don't take me as saying I'm complacent. I'm not.
But where are all of the videos of the bad game play in the 2k series? There isn't, because it doesn't serve the purpose.

The argument about canned animations is a systematically flawed argument. Its a video game. Graphical interfaces are a compilation of canned animations. There is no too ways about it. Every game in existence is subject to those restrictions.

falconfansince81 wrote:i bought both 2k and madden 05 as they were both the pinnacle of football games, 2k had the better presentation but maddens franchise mode was a lot deeper. i loved the gameplay of both games and still wait to see it return...

what 2k has always done right, is EXPRESS SIMULATION FOOTBALL...within the oline, within consecutive hit tackles, within momentum and strength and especially within different player styles.

take a look at this video comparing adrian peterson to chris johnson, not only do you not see CJ breaking 6 tackles or putting DT's down with one hand, you actually see his style of running versus AP's more power style. this is something madden CANNOT express, every runner has the same style whereas in 2k8 you see and FEEL the difference very clearly. so would i be excited to get back to simulation football? damn right.

Watching this video, all I could think of was how unrealistic it looks, especially the cuts and spins. Too often they are moving without their feet moving, like they are on a conveyor belt or something. Madden is 100 times more real.

bigbuddah wrote:nfl 2k5 or 2k8 regardless the technology and engines they used then isnt in madden today. small little things like that would make madden 5x better and they arent doing it. we suffer caus it is the only football game out there. the fact that they are so exclusive makes them responsible to putting out the best game. they dont have to beat anyone or compete against anyone so we get games like what we have now. they need to fix it.

This is also a flawed argument. There was competition before EA became exclusive. And there were still limitations and still issues with all of the games. The coding (not technology) isn't in Madden, because the coding is proprietary to the old brand. Unless EA programmers can duplicate it, it is what it is. Hell, Apple has a better interface, but you don't see it on PCs, same reason.

Not to mention WE (the over 18 year old Football loving SIM players) aren't the target market.
Under 18 year old, arcade loving children are the target markets for these video games.... and they fit that market to a T.
There isn't a group big enough to change that.....its a fact of life.

tru but animations need to be both ways as well. in madden its either the offensive playing doing the animation or the defensive player doing the animation. why put flaws under the spot light in a game that is 3 4 years old? show what is better about a 4 yr old game that a 6 month on game.

and i agree, but the lack of consecutive hit tackling and 1 animation at a time ruins 'the game of inches' and pretty much takes all ratings out of the equation. blocking is also done 100x better in the 2k series, which i think its the root of a good football game. and thats all i want...and what these dudes want, and i think would benefit all of us.

there is no point to pointing out flaws in 2k, but to point out what they did right and that those positives should be implemented into madden since its the only game we have to play. thats the whole point of these videos...

phantomshark wrote:

falconfansince81 wrote:i bought both 2k and madden 05 as they were both the pinnacle of football games, 2k had the better presentation but maddens franchise mode was a lot deeper. i loved the gameplay of both games and still wait to see it return...

what 2k has always done right, is EXPRESS SIMULATION FOOTBALL...within the oline, within consecutive hit tackles, within momentum and strength and especially within different player styles.

take a look at this video comparing adrian peterson to chris johnson, not only do you not see CJ breaking 6 tackles or putting DT's down with one hand, you actually see his style of running versus AP's more power style. this is something madden CANNOT express, every runner has the same style whereas in 2k8 you see and FEEL the difference very clearly. so would i be excited to get back to simulation football? damn right.

Watching this video, all I could think of was how unrealistic it looks, especially the cuts and spins. Too often they are moving without their feet moving, like they are on a conveyor belt or something. Madden is 100 times more real.

LMFAO!! right, cause ice skating around w/o losing momentum with all the tumbleweed tackling is way more realistic. ugh, i can't even argue this or even debate it...if you can't see past animations your never going to get it. long live pro-tak.

Fr8trainShane wrote:Not to mention WE (the over 18 year old Football loving SIM players) aren't the target market.
Under 18 year old, arcade loving children are the target markets for these video games.... and they fit that market to a T.
There isn't a group big enough to change that.....its a fact of life.

ill give u that but this is a football game that is suppose to represent real football. the madden arcade failed terribly...from what i was told

bigbuddah wrote:tru but animations need to be both ways as well. in madden its either the offensive playing doing the animation or the defensive player doing the animation. why put flaws under the spot light in a game that is 3 4 years old? show what is better about a 4 yr old game that a 6 month on game.

Salvadore Dali said it best, "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it. "