Ok There Has Got To Be Something Done About This 4 Down STuff....

Ok I just got done playing an opponent(who I am not going to name). First drive of the game they drive down the field on me and finally my defense stops them on roughly the 20(somewhere around there). This makes it 4th and 4 so I figured hell yea I held him to a FG and still got a chance to come back down and take the lead. Nope they go for it and on top of it get a touchdown. Now seriously how many teams in the NFL go for it on 4th down in the NFL in the first quarter on the first drive of the game when they have a chip shot FG?

My frustration is not that they went for it on fourth down but the time that they went for it on fourth down. I mean come on seriously. The first possession of the game? It makes a guy feel like there is no reward for stopping somebody on D. So can we please do something about this where we cant go for it on fourth until later in the game? 2nd half? In a tight game? Something because this was just irritating and made me not even want to finish the game!

even its its 4th and 1 he has to take the FG...the only reason he should go for it in that situation is if he's down 17+ in the 4th or maybe even up just a fg where a conversion would win the game. totally uncalled for...

That's lame as hell. And people wonder why everyone wants to keep creating rules. How is that even remotely sim? That would NEVER happen. Yet whoever did it will probably say "it's within the rules". That sucks bro, sorry you had to deal with that.

Yea it was annoying as piss and its really irritating.

thanks for leaving my name out bill. that was really classy and i appreciate it but i'll own up. but it was 4th and 1 on your 20, and it's fine i know ima take heat for owning up to this but it is what it is. ofcourse it's not something that you would see in the nfl but as far as i know you can go for it on 4th and 1 from anywhere on the field? idk if this changed?

he said it was 4th and 4...i said even if its 4th and 1.

ezweightloss wrote:thanks for leaving my name out bill. that was really classy and i appreciate it but i'll own up. but it was 4th and 1 on your 20, and it's fine i know ima take heat for owning up to this but it is what it is. ofcourse it's not something that you would see in the nfl but as far as i know you can go for it on 4th and 1 from anywhere on the field? idk if this changed?

It's now you can go for 4th and anything on opponents side, but never on your own side except 4th quarter losing. I think.

phantomshark wrote:

ezweightloss wrote:thanks for leaving my name out bill. that was really classy and i appreciate it but i'll own up. but it was 4th and 1 on your 20, and it's fine i know ima take heat for owning up to this but it is what it is. ofcourse it's not something that you would see in the nfl but as far as i know you can go for it on 4th and 1 from anywhere on the field? idk if this changed?

It's now you can go for 4th and anything on opponents side, but never on your own side except 4th quarter losing. I think.

Correct. But the most important thing is to play sim. Not just play by the rules. In the NFL, you don't ever see teams going for it in the first qtr, even on the other team's side of the field.

Cheddah_Cheez wrote:

phantomshark wrote:

ezweightloss wrote:thanks for leaving my name out bill. that was really classy and i appreciate it but i'll own up. but it was 4th and 1 on your 20, and it's fine i know ima take heat for owning up to this but it is what it is. ofcourse it's not something that you would see in the nfl but as far as i know you can go for it on 4th and 1 from anywhere on the field? idk if this changed?

It's now you can go for 4th and anything on opponents side, but never on your own side except 4th quarter losing. I think.

Correct. But the most important thing is to play sim. Not just play by the rules. In the NFL, you don't ever see teams going for it in the first qtr, even on the other team's side of the field.

This is exactly my point. I mean when does this happen?

ezweightloss wrote:thanks for leaving my name out bill. that was really classy and i appreciate it but i'll own up. but it was 4th and 1 on your 20, and it's fine i know ima take heat for owning up to this but it is what it is. ofcourse it's not something that you would see in the nfl but as far as i know you can go for it on 4th and 1 from anywhere on the field? idk if this changed?

It's not about trying to push your gameplay to the very edge of what fits within the SIM rules, its about trying to play a realistic game. It's not technically against the rules to go for that, but it is lame as hell in my opinion, I've never seen an NFL coach make that call.

surfnturf90 wrote:

ezweightloss wrote:thanks for leaving my name out bill. that was really classy and i appreciate it but i'll own up. but it was 4th and 1 on your 20, and it's fine i know ima take heat for owning up to this but it is what it is. ofcourse it's not something that you would see in the nfl but as far as i know you can go for it on 4th and 1 from anywhere on the field? idk if this changed?

It's not about trying to push your gameplay to the very edge of what fits within the SIM rules, its about trying to play a realistic game. It's not technically against the rules to go for that, but it is lame as hell in my opinion, I've never seen an NFL coach make that call.

Yea it got nothing to do with bashing EZ's game play. Hes a good player and I respect him a ton but damnit man stuff like this is why guys get irritated. This honestly made me not even want to play.

Okay, now I understand what he did wasn't what most Coachs do in the NFL, however, most Coachs will run the same play more then 20% of any given game if it works. Now if we do that in the madden group it will be considered unsim... Yet we want to play a realistic game that mimics what we see on Sundays.... So there's appears to be a fundamental flaw in our point of view, is sim following MG rules or the NFL? Now I dnt like what he did yet, it was is own judgment call but I wouldn't call it lame or unsim

jmojsoski wrote:Okay, now I understand what he did wasn't what most Coachs do in the NFL, however, most Coachs will run the same play more then 20% of any given game if it works. Now if we do that in the madden group it will be considered unsim... Yet we want to play a realistic game that mimics what we see on Sundays.... So there's appears to be a fundamental flaw in our point of view, is sim following MG rules or the NFL? Now I dnt like what he did yet, it was is own judgment call but I wouldn't call it lame or unsim

But I mean really. Who does that? I dont care if your tryin to set the tempo or not I felt it was straight trash and disrespectful.

surfnturf90 wrote:

ezweightloss wrote:thanks for leaving my name out bill. that was really classy and i appreciate it but i'll own up. but it was 4th and 1 on your 20, and it's fine i know ima take heat for owning up to this but it is what it is. ofcourse it's not something that you would see in the nfl but as far as i know you can go for it on 4th and 1 from anywhere on the field? idk if this changed?

It's not about trying to push your gameplay to the very edge of what fits within the SIM rules, its about trying to play a realistic game. It's not technically against the rules to go for that, but it is lame as hell in my opinion, I've never seen an NFL coach make that call.

i guess that's why i'm not a coach in the nfl...

bad call - within the rules and cant be snactioned - but you kick the field goal out of respect for your opponents great 3 down stand and to respec the essence of SIM play...

to many times we hide behind what is in the rules and what is not - if you polled 100 NFL coaches - 100 of them would have kicked that field goal...

i bet if EZ had to do it over agian - he would kickj the field goal - not gonna put words in his mouth - but probably a snap decision that he had a momentary lapse in judgement - could happen to any1 in the heat of the game...

but - BILLY did u pause the game and ask him about it before he did the gamble OR did u wait to see if u stopped him first before you complained? I bet if you stopped him - this thread would be non-existant - but i suppose thats human nature - but we could all do a lil better than our human nature programming influences us to do... afterall we do have free will...

Had a similar incident today, was already tired and cranky, and bitching up a storm (publically in the blast chat but aimed at Madden not my opponent) because my wide open WRs were dropping balls or having men 10 yards away jumping and swatting, while his double covered receivers were making impossible catches and breaking tackles left and right. He was up 17-0 and I finally stopped him to make it 4th and inches from my 27 with 3 minutes left in the 3rd, and he decided to go for it. Well, that sent me over the edge. I went into punt block the rest of the drive and told him if he wanted the TD that bad he could have it, and after he scored and I got the ball back to start the 4th, I kneeled 3 times and punted.

@greener: i would go for it in that situation 9/10. the difference of getting 3 points to 7 on an opening drive is a big difference as far a momentum goes. i wanted to set the tone for the game. if billy woulda stopped it could have a whole different scenario but he didnt and it got me off the the good start i needed in a must win game for me. i'm not an nfl coach but i have coached pee wee leagues and what not and that's just my style. when im out there with the 8-10 ten year old there obviously isnt a great deal of kicking fg but if it's 4th and 1 around the our own fourty i go for it 9/10 because i like risk/reward. once again i'm not an nfl coach but this is how i play, if there is a rule to stop this style i would abide by it but until then i stand by what i did. i can understand billy's frustration but this is how i play and i don't mind taking the heat for it. i play to win.

[quote="ezweightloss"]@greener: i would go for it in that situation 9/10. the difference of getting 3 points to 7 on an opening drive is a big difference as far a momentum goes. i wanted to set the tone for the game. if billy woulda stopped it could have a whole different scenario but he didnt and it got me off the the good start i needed in a must win game for me. i'm not an nfl coach but i have coached pee wee leagues and what not and that's just my style. when im out there with the 8-10 ten year old there obviously isnt a great deal of kicking fg but if it's 4th and 1 around the our own fourty i go for it 9/10 because i like risk/reward. once again i'm not an nfl coach but this is how i play, if there is a rule to stop this style i would abide by it but until then i stand by what i did. i can understand billy's frustration but this is how i play and i don't mind taking the heat for it. i play to win.[/quot

I don't care if you play fb with a bunch of pee wees or not. The fact of the matter is that what you did was a load of horse shit. It was bs and totally disrespectful. I would expect more from you Bein a leader in this group and the fact that anyone would back you up on this makes me sick. It's a total dick move and you know it.

On a first possession of the game, that would RARELY happen, but I don't know about never. If it is a big game, and you're facing a high powered offense and/or a team you've had trouble beating, and you think you need every single break you can get, I can see it happening - on 4th and 1, maybe. However, I don't think any of those conditions existed, so I think it is UN-SIM, and therefore lame.

On 4th and 4? NEVER. EVER.

I respect EZ for owning up to it, but Bill is right. That was bogus.

Just like EZ, i will point out that i was the one that went for it up 17 points in the 3rd qtr on 4th and inches from his 27 yard line. I felt that going up 20-0 was no difference from 17-0...I still lose with 3 tds by him and we still had 1 1/2 qtrs to play... So i decideded lets go for it and if he stops me, then i am no different position than what the score is now. It probably did not help that he was on the public chat bitching about every other play anyways.... He was not happy that Peyton Manning of all qbs threw a perfect pass over the defenders head to have my wr catch and run for a td... He was not happy about his wr dropping pass..he was not happy about a holding penalty on a kickoff...so i just take all this in stride and realize sometimes the madden gods do not want you to win... I would go for it again and feel that many of the owners here and even SOME in the NFL would would have... (Bellichik)...Sorry if i offended you Phantom but that was not my intention.

bjcole26 wrote:Just like EZ, i will point out that i was the one that went for it up 17 points in the 3rd qtr on 4th and inches from his 27 yard line. I felt that going up 20-0 was no difference from 17-0...I still lose with 3 tds by him and we still had 1 1/2 qtrs to play... So i decideded lets go for it and if he stops me, then i am no different position than what the score is now. It probably did not help that he was on the public chat bitching about every other play anyways.... He was not happy that Peyton Manning of all qbs threw a perfect pass over the defenders head to have my wr catch and run for a td... He was not happy about his wr dropping pass..he was not happy about a holding penalty on a kickoff...so i just take all this in stride and realize sometimes the madden gods do not want you to win... I would go for it again and feel that many of the owners here and even SOME in the NFL would would have... (Bellichik)...Sorry if i offended you Phantom but that was not my intention.

Sorry to say, that's lame as hell.

I understand Cheddah... The guys on the AIM chat felt the same way as you.. Again Phantom, i was not trying to run up the score or offend you in any way.... Also game before this one, i was up 21-7 in 2nd qtr, only to be down 28-21 in 3rd which showed me how fast 21 points could be scored.

bjcole26 wrote:Just like EZ, i will point out that i was the one that went for it up 17 points in the 3rd qtr on 4th and inches from his 27 yard line. I felt that going up 20-0 was no difference from 17-0...I still lose with 3 tds by him and we still had 1 1/2 qtrs to play... So i decideded lets go for it and if he stops me, then i am no different position than what the score is now. It probably did not help that he was on the public chat bitching about every other play anyways.... He was not happy that Peyton Manning of all qbs threw a perfect pass over the defenders head to have my wr catch and run for a td... He was not happy about his wr dropping pass..he was not happy about a holding penalty on a kickoff...so i just take all this in stride and realize sometimes the madden gods do not want you to win... I would go for it again and feel that many of the owners here and even SOME in the NFL would would have... (Bellichik)...Sorry if i offended you Phantom but that was not my intention.

I also thought it was lame, and obviously we discussed it in the chat...
but 20-0 is a lot different that 17-0.

At 20-0, you would have only needed a FG to surpass a 3 TD run from him.... and given the quarter and time left, it is highly unlikely, unless you continued to pass the ball, instead of running down the clock.

Also, just for the record, Phantom is the one that came back from a 24-0 against CP recently and says he is good at the onside kick.

both situations by ez and bj are close to be 100% FG siutuations in theh NFL as its gets...

mblammers said that nothing is ever 100% - and from my undergad study in Economics, econometrics and statitics i agree with that statement - BUT THOSE 2 SITUATIONS ARE AS CLOSE TO 100% AS YOU EVER GONNA GET (if u polled NFL coaches and asked them if the y would go for it or kick a FG)


and as far as EZ saying that he would do the same in a futue circumstance - thats troblesome - definitely spits in the face of what SIM play is all about... It makes no sense for us to even TRY to make rules mandaed every aspect of SIM play - there has to be some COMMON SENSE where guys must respect the ESSENCE OF SIM PLAY even though rules would permit a "frreestyle or gamer" type decision and until we can get guys to buy into this 100% we are going to have situations like this that come up...

what i challenge every to do - when u come to these situations - and if you even have any DOUBT that this could be inturpreted as UNSIM - it probably is - AND DONT DO IT!