I am at my WITS END - dont want to do this anymore!

This thread is crazy lol ...

I'm all for real Strategy and whatever "TOOLS" give players a Chance or Option

kavorka2 wrote:dude, seriously,  you're saying Tom Brady "glitched" his opponent this weekend by snapping the ball quickly?   snapping the ball when the QB gets to the line, is NOT a glitch, it's an optional preference.
glitch is something like the nano-blitz from years past, where it was pretty much AI BS and couldn't be stopped. don't give this "quick snap" the wrong name.

No its a CLEAR GLITCH - because it has ZERO FOOTBALL VALUE OTHER THEN TO FUCK WITH THE DEFENSES PLAY CALLING - there is no other reason for snapping ASAP!

You cant comp[are the NFL "quick snap" to MADDEN SNAP ASAP because at every level of football (from pop warner to NFL......) the defense KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO LINE UP - and what THERE DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENT IS! By snapping ASAP the offense doeesnt allow the defense to call the play the intended... - tHIS IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF WHAT GLITCHING IS!

RIPxPatTillman40 wrote:pass guess is completely different thn gap guess, although i noticed tht gap guess isnt as effective as last yr, as greener stated it the only thing tht stops PA because if u blitz on any PA pass this yr without pass committing thn ur blitzers will tackle HB almost everytime n leave QB untouched

THERE IS NO DOUBT - PASS GUESS IS A MUST IN THE GAME... Regardless of AWARENESS, PLAY RECOGNITION, Down / distance and previous success running the ball - IF THE DEFENSE DOES NOT CALL GUESS PASS - AND THE OFFENSE CALLS PLAYACTION, the defense will bite on the play action...

and i understand rules need to eveolve - I am happy to look at GAP GUESS again - the defense does not do the CRAZY ANIMATION where the STUDENT BODY all slanted in one direction (and pushed any OLINE in their way back...) - maybe for M25 this is fixed...

I created a COMMUNITY to test out such things (and sliders...)

broadway_blitz wrote:This thread is crazy lol ...

I'm all for real Strategy and whatever "TOOLS" give players a Chance or Option

Thats my point here! All i am asking for is the CHANCE to implemement my STRATEGY (which for me is calling the play i want to call on defense...) - so that i can have a relative OPTION to have some fun when i play!!!

Many of you are acting like banning SNAPPING ASAP is an unheard of idea!!! there are many leagues that outlaw SNAPPING ASAP! (Where you think i got the idea from!!!)

AGAIN YOUR STRATEGY IS FLAWED BECAUSEBIT TAKES TONLONG TO SET UP!!! That's our fault not mine and to ask the offense to slow down for you is blasphemy! BLASHEMY! It's not competitive football anymore then. You have to react to what I am doing that's why you are playin defense. If I want to limit our time to make adjusemts are line that's my prerogative. And now that I know it bothers you I will do it even more because you let me know its a weeknes of yours.


Your definition of a glitch is way off base. It's not a glitch snapping fast its personal preference to limit your time no glitch there. You are just frustrated it limits your play calling. Come on man

CHIP KELLY IS A GLITCHER!!!! He should be fined 500k and suspended for the year! Same with P.Manning. Fine him and suspend him! (Man that would be Great. Go CHIEFS!)

weasel_ wrote:YOUR STRATEGY IS FLAWED BECAUSEBIT TAKES TONLONG TO SET UP!!!  That's our fault not mine and to ask the offense to slow down for you is blasphemy!    BLASHEMY!  

It's not flawed - I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL THE PLAY I WANT TO CALL! - every level of football the Defense can call whatever play they want but somehow you think it's ok for the offence to prevent this by snapping ASAP! That's total BS!

weasel_ wrote:And now that I know it bothers you I will do it even more because you let me know its a weeknes of yours.  

Your wrong there Because I would never play you (I don't care if it was the SUPER BOWL!) - I am not playing 1 more clown in the league I created (and spent dozens of hours running...) - if you don't give me the 3 seconds after the line is set, you will get an auto win (with overly generous stats so u can't whine about missed XP)

Bottom line is that I refuse to play a game I hate in a league I have poor so much time in - I am not doing it anymore!

weasel_ wrote:
Your definition of a glitch is way off base.  It's not a glitch snapping fast its personal preference to limit your time no glitch there.

There is no VALUE TO THE OFFENSE for snapping ASAP - it's only done to take away a fundemental aspect of the game that every Defense has at every level of football!!! that's a clear example of a glitch!

Greener, I know you're very frustrated. But you gotta try and understand when almost everyone here is in agreement.
I think you were a defensive coordinator of the colts in your past life. Look, the objective of the offense is to SCHEMATICALLY keep the defense on their toes and guessing the whole game, to go score a TD. Mixing up play calling is probably the biggest key to that, and yes, even snapping the ball BEFORE the defense can have their shit together is legit. It's a chess match man. There's not AI BS going on, no crazy stick skills of any sort. If anything , you are taking control of the game by being a step ahead of the defense. You have to know where each guy is going, and figure out what the defense is probably calling.

Just think about it, "DEFENSE". You think even in the medieval days, the people defending the castle would tell invaders "yooooo, hold up a sec, we ain't ready yet!" It's strategy, not madden BS. Offense makes the first move.

And now that I think about it, of how you could counter everyone snapping the ball fast against you. Why not time it perfectly (bc it's always the same amount of time) and POLAMALU sack their asses. Just sayin man, there's always a counter

GREENERRRR wrote:
No its a CLEAR GLITCH - because it has ZERO FOOTBALL VALUE OTHER THEN TO FUCK WITH THE DEFENSES PLAY CALLING - there is no other reason for snapping ASAP!

You cant comp[are the NFL "quick snap" to MADDEN SNAP ASAP because at every level of football (from pop warner to NFL......) the defense KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO LINE UP - and what THERE DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENT IS!  By snapping ASAP the offense doeesnt allow the defense to call the play the intended... - tHIS IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF WHAT GLITCHING IS!

A defense does not know all the adjustments your making before the offense breaks the huddle. They know the base defense that was called, maybe their man assignment, and all of this is known by your defense when you call a play in madden. Any other adjustment is done after the offense play has been identified by the defensive signal caller. Then adjsutments are made. Just like in the game. How can you say you have such a vast football knowledge and spout this non-sense

kavorka2 wrote:Greener, I know you're very frustrated. But you gotta try and understand when almost everyone here is in agreement.
I think you were a defensive coordinator of the colts in your past life.  Look, the objective of the offense is to SCHEMATICALLY keep the defense on their toes and guessing the whole game, to go score a TD. Mixing up play calling is probably the biggest key to that, and yes, even snapping the ball BEFORE the defense can have their shit together is legit. It's a chess match man. There's not AI BS going on, no crazy stick skills of any sort. If anything , you are taking control of the game by being a step ahead of the defense. You have to know where each guy is going, and figure out what the defense is probably calling.

Just think about it, "DEFENSE".  You think even in the medieval days, the people defending the castle would tell invaders "yooooo, hold up a sec, we ain't ready yet!"   It's strategy, not madden BS.  Offense makes the first move.




And now that I think about it, of how you could counter everyone snapping the ball fast against you.  Why not time it perfectly (bc it's always the same amount of time) and POLAMALU sack their asses.   Just sayin man,  there's always a counter

I made the same point... This guy just don't wanna hear it... If it's not my way then I am going to take my ball and go home and no one can play.. Sounds like someone needed to be toughened up as a kid..

I guess when Ray Lewis played Manning only Manning was making adjustments. The D# already knew what they were gonna do and Ray was just pointing at his teammates for nothing. Your logic makes no sense at all. We all have to deal with the quick snap so what the hell is the problem? Don't ruin your league because you can't hang bro.

kavorka2 wrote:
Greener, I know you're very frustrated. But you gotta try and understand when almost everyone here is in agreement.

I get that I am going this alone - AND I KNEW THIS B4 I MADE THE POST but I didn't make this stand to win a popularity contest!

The most enjoyable part of madden for me is THE CHESS MATCH BETWEEN 2 PLAYERS but this eliminated when guys SNAP ASAP because I can't call the base play I wanted to call!

Being able to call the play you want IS A MINIMUM LEVEL THING! It's fundamental in playing Defense and is part of football at every level! To take that out of the game make playing for me MISERABLE!

kavorka2 wrote:
Look, the objective of the offense is to SCHEMATICALLY keep the defense on their toes and guessing the whole game, to go score a TD. Mixing up play calling is probably the biggest key to that, and yes, even snapping the ball BEFORE the defense can have their shit together is legit. It's a chess match man.

0hhhh man - we are on the same page BUT YOUR NOT LOOKING AT IT THE WAY I DO!

I agree in an ideal game the offense SHOULD be able to snap when they want (that's their corp advantages- they know WHAT the play is and WHEN the ball is going to be snapped...

But giving the offense the ability to SNAP ASAP is much less critical for game fundamentals THEN ALLOWING THE DEFENSE TO CALL THE BASE PLAY THEY WANT!

It's SIMPLY THE FAR LESSER OF TWO EVILS!

Afterall the Defense still can call the lat whenever they want after "3 seconds from when the line is set" plus - snapping ASAP has zero true football value! It's only done in madden football and the only value it has in madden football is to stop the Defense from calling the base play they wanted to call!!!!)

You never see an NFL team snap ASAP because there is no value in it! In every level of football the Defense INSTANTLY knows WHERE to line up and WHAT their assignment is - its only in madden that the Defense doesn't know this!

You mentioned the chess match between offense and Defense BUT WHEN GUYS SNAP ASAP ONLY THE OFFENSE GETS TO CALL THE PLAY THEY WANTED - the Defense doesn't get to employ strategy because there are stuck with a MADDEN PLAY and rushing to MAYBE get 3 adjustments done - that's not the base play I want to call - this eliminates the chess match which is the main reason I play madden!

kavorka2 wrote:Just think about it, "DEFENSE".  You think even in the medieval days, the people defending the castle would tell invaders "yooooo, hold up a sec, we ain't ready yet!"   It's strategy, not madden BS.  Offense makes the first move.

And ideally the offense should be allowed to snap ASAP (even though there is no football value to it - but if that's what u want whatever....) but MADDEN IS FAR FROM AN IDEAL GAME!

The caviet of alllowing the offense to snap ASAP cannot be at the expense of a such a fundamental thing like allowing the Defense to call the the base play they wanted! But it is and that's why it should be outlawed!

Tell me 1 value of snapping ASAP besides screwing with the Defense play call? Trick question - THERE IS NONE!

kavorka2 wrote:
And now that I think about it, of how you could counter everyone snapping the ball fast against you.  Why not time it perfectly (bc it's always the same amount of time) and POLAMALU sack their asses.   Just sayin man,  there's always a counter

Maybe that would work great BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT - I have no interest in playing madden that way!

What I love about madden is the CHESS MATCH u mentioned but snapping ASAP doesn't allow me to call the play I wanted to call!

It literally turns the game into something I hate - would u spend all the extra time to run a league if you HATED THE GAMEPLAY?

I refuse to that! I am sure u would feel the same way...

Maddening isn't it? wrote:I guess when Ray Lewis played Manning only Manning was making adjustments.  The D# already knew what they were gonna do and Ray was just pointing at his teammates for nothing. Your logic makes no sense at all. We all have to deal with the quick snap so what the hell is the problem? Don't ruin your league because you can't hang bro.

Like I said before - this has NOTHING TO DO WITH WINNING AND LOSING!

It's all about enjoyment of the game!

I have won more games then I loss since guys have been snapping ASAP 100% of the time vs me - AND I DESPISED THE GAMES I WON AS MUCH AS THE GAMES I LOSS!

Would you spend all the extra hours it takes to run the a league that I spend IF YOU HATED PLAYING THE GAME? - no way I am going to do that!

Dude there are over a 1000 D# plays. If you need some elaborate Base D# play then I don't know what to tell you. Pick a base defense that you only need to make 3-4 adjustments. If you need 8+ plus adjustments then you are clearly picking the wrong base play. You can't stop everything with a base play, it's impossible.

Maddening isn't it? wrote:Dude there are over a 1000 D# plays. If you need some elaborate Base D# play then I don't know what to tell you. Pick a base defense that you only need to make 3-4 adjustments. If you need 8+ plus adjustments then you are clearly picking the wrong base play.  You can't stop everything with a base play, it's impossible.

You guys are all just repeating what everyone has already said. It makes perfect sense to everyone except the commish..

greener wrote:The most enjoyable part of madden for me is THE CHESS MATCH BETWEEN 2 PLAYERS but this eliminated when guys SNAP ASAP because I can't call the base play I wanted to call!

For the last time you are calling your base defense... The adjustments your making is not a base defense.

greener wrote:Being able to call the play you want IS A MINIMUM LEVEL THING! It's fundamental in playing Defense and is part of football at every level! To take that out of the game make playing for me MISERABLE!

They have given you the minimal plays to call... Your trying to call elaborate schemes and personal assignments for specific players that's not a base defense

greener wrote:Afterall the Defense still can call the lat whenever they want after "3 seconds from when the line is set" plus - snapping ASAP has zero true football value! It's only done in madden football and the only value it has in madden football is to stop the Defense from calling the base play they wanted to call!!!!)

You never see an NFL team snap ASAP because there is no value in it! In every level of football the Defense INSTANTLY knows WHERE to line up and WHAT their assignment is - its only in madden that the Defense doesn't know this!

Not sure what football you watch? I see this happen all the time in the NFL.. Catch teams while they are subbing and not ready, to catch too many men on the field, to run a quick QB sneak for a first down before the defense is prepared I see it happen on all these occasions. I also see it done to mess with defenses trying to guess snap cadence...

greener wrote:You mentioned the chess match between offense and Defense BUT WHEN GUYS SNAP ASAP ONLY THE OFFENSE GETS TO CALL THE PLAY THEY WANTED - the Defense doesn't get to employ strategy because there are stuck with a MADDEN PLAY and rushing to MAYBE get 3 adjustments done - that's not the base play I want to call - this eliminates the chess match which is the main reason I play madden!

We are all stuck with the "Madden Plays" on offense and defense. No one has other plays available to them. Anyone who wants to change a "Madden Play" has to call the same adjustments you do on both offense and defense

greener wrote:The caviet of alllowing the offense to snap ASAP cannot be at the expense of a such a fundamental thing like allowing the Defense to call the the base play they wanted! But it is and that's why it should be outlawed!

Tell me 1 value of snapping ASAP besides screwing with the Defense play call? Trick question - THERE IS NONE!

We have been over this many times... You are calling your base play... The play you wanna call or set up I should say is not a base play in the game.

greener wrote:What I love about madden is the CHESS MATCH u mentioned but snapping ASAP doesn't allow me to call the play I wanted to call!

I don't understand this at all?? It is a chess match part of that chess match is figuring out what play to call. You have 400 plays to pick from in your play book. one of those plays with no adjustments can stop the play the offense is trying to execute... Picking the correct play to stop the offense you think is going to be run is the chess match. if they come out and you want to make on the fly moves your time is limited. Think of it as speed chess.. You can use all your knowledge and skills but this game is on a clock and you only have so much time for each move.

This is what happens when you live in Saskachawan Canada and never met a black person till the age of 10. No damn sense. Greener would turn himself in for J walking. Those two patriots fans that homeboy punched over the weekend would probably eat Greeners food.

How does this guy not understand that with the entire league trying to explain to him he's flat out to lunch he still won't concede the argument.

Should we have NOT dropped the A bomb to end the war because there was no defense for it ?

Just think about it, "DEFENSE". You think even in the medieval days, the people defending the castle would tell invaders "yooooo, hold up a sec, we ain't ready yet!" It's strategy, not madden BS. Offense makes the first move.

LMFAO. BEST LINE EVER!!!!

Wait wait !!!! The oil isn't HOT yet don't storm the castle!!!!


Wait time out we ran out of arrows storm the gates next week so we can have more Ammo.

Should we not run drone strike missions because the enemy doesn't have drones?

Greeener the dude that would get dragged by his platoon in the bush because he would want them to have shinny belt buckles because its the RULES! Regardless if it would allow te enemy to spot a soldier from farther away.

This is honestly one of the worst displays of deductive reasoning I have ever encountered! Even my 5 year old nephews have more sophisticate gamemanship then this poor soul.

Comedy

geez, this just sounds like a broken record now.. repeat, repeat, repeat.

one more thing Greener, why now? why not last year? last year I had mentioned to you how Dcolon would play, all streaks with TE and RB from the backfield and quick snapped the ball almost all game (except when he ran the ball). You completely ignored those comments, maybe because you were having reasonable success or something, and only played him like once every season in playoffs. I remember we would lab and try to shade ALL our DB's to the inside to stop that (before the quick snap). In my opinion , it was the farthest thing from SIM football, yet you never said or did anything. You applauded him actually.

Compare that to what you are talking about now, is kind of ridiculous to say the least.

LMAO @ weasel

weasel_ wrote:
Wait wait !!!!   The oil isn't HOT yet don't storm the castle!!!!

This had me dying. well done

Oh man I really love greener though man. This league is well run I wish he would just wake up and smell the coffee

I'm sorry I look at football as war. We are doing combat on a battle field. I show no mercy to my enemy and will exploit every weakness I possibly can I want you to walk away completely and really demoralized and intimidated. I don't care about your experience of the game at all not one bit. I want to win every game 100-0 and embares my opponent then call my friends after who are also in the league and laugh y ass off at how badly I abused my opponent. That's the fun in the game for me. So man the hell up and step into the arena and play some ball. I expect nothing but the same exact mindset from my opponent. Why would I show any mercy if I'm not expecting it myself? All this dont run up the score BS and run out of bounds after a interception or on a long run. Or I can't throw on third down because I'm up 21 in the 4th. THAT SURE AS HELL AIN'T SIM!!!! So it's sim over here but not over there? The hell with that! To many damn rules man can't even breath! Trying to make us all robots. Less rules leads I more individualism hxhbis good for the league. The league has progressed from a talent standpoint . You want to make this league sim? Leave that coaches fired option ON!!!! So hen bum juice scrub bum looser no skill having herbs go 1-15 te get fired and we can replace them with real talent. I ain't gona carry anyone vs me. I want to know where my game stands every snap I'm workin on something for the next game. Turn that coach thing back ON make the league more SIM . Don't restrict te stats either that ain't real. Worst rule you eer implimemted. Just done from a straight up jelousy standpoint.

Shit just got real.

I don't know if I agree with runnin the score up at the end of the game though...

Maddening isn't it? wrote:Dude there are over a 1000 D# plays. If you need some elaborate Base D# play then I don't know what to tell you. Pick a base defense that you only need to make 3-4 adjustments. If you need 8+ plus adjustments then you are clearly picking the wrong base play.  You can't stop everything with a base play, it's impossible.

its easy to have to call more then 4 adjustments!


MADDEN DOES NOT HAVE THE COMPLEXITY for the defense to call the plays they want - they leave that for you to do with presnap adjustments... and if the offense snaps ASAP there is no way you can do 3 (maybe 4 adjustments....) and u have to be a keen BUTTON MASHER to get these adjustments in correct... - anymore changes then 3 or 4 - you simply do not have enough time!!!

lets take an example and see why you might need to do adjustments AND HOW MANY... vs a team with a scrambling QB like GRIFFEN -

1) u need to SPY him every play (and if u play someone with good stick skills u probably need 2 spies - but for arguement sake - lets say 1 adjustments - give the benefit of doubt...)

2) Its obvious passing down so u need GUESS PASS play...

3) He has been running slants all day to a particular WR so you need to move the CB over top of that player to inside shade...

4) Offense has been abusing the stretch so you need to shift OLB to a 9 technique to stop the outside run...

THATS ALL YOU HAVE TIME FOR - CANT DO ANYMORE!!!! - OFFFENSE HAS SNAPPED THE BALL!!!

*** THIS IS NOT AN UNREASONABLE AMOUNT OF BASIC PLAY CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE DONE MANUALLY (there is no plays that allow you to do these things!!!) - and i havent even got into wanting to try to do zone blitzes or change assignments in pass coverages!!!!! but snapping ASAP stops you from doing these very trivial things by simply SNAPPING ASAP!!!!

kavorka2 wrote:last year I had mentioned to you how Dcolon would play, all streaks with TE and RB from the backfield and quick snapped the ball almost all game (except when he ran the ball).

Ugh, that was just awful. We all expected it too, but there was little we could do about it. I'm glad the defense reacts a bit better this year.


As for the topic at hand - I've neglected to offer my opinion because I didn't have one. I wanted to figure out if this quick-snapping nonsense was really detrimental to Madden. After playing nearly 20 league games, well... I don't notice it. It actually takes these forums and texts to remind me that quick-snap is apparently a problem.

I'll personally snap the ball quicker than usual if I'm running the ball and the defense comes out in an exploitable formation - that's common sense. However, more often than not I'll wait to see what the defense brings, make my adjustments, and snap the ball - a process which takes 5-6 seconds. Not to their benefit, but to mine. My preference is to wait a little. But everyone has different game-plans and styles, and IMO that's part of what makes online leagues fun. Scouting, game-planning, substitutions; the responsibility falls on me to defeat the opposing player.

If my defense isn't set when my opponent snaps the ball - that's MY fault. If my opponent no-huddles because I came out in the wrong formation, that's my fault. If my opponent scores more points than me, it's (totally not) my fault. Since the responsibility falls on me, I have to constantly make adjustments throughout the game to counter my opponent's tendencies. I'll never expect him to adjust to MY strengths. That's what makes Madden a chess match in my eyes.

For example, at the beginning of last season, I no doubt had the worst defense. I think I started 0-2 (or 0-3) because I was giving up so many points. I even abundantly complained about the sliders on here because I was that pissed. But instead of waiting for Madden to conform to my play-style, I instead conformed. I started playing different schemes, different blitzes, different coverages, etc. I finished the season with like the 7th best defense or something like that. With that said, as of right now I believe I'm 32nd in defense (and it will stay that way after playing Rippattillman), but it's a new season and I have new adjustments to make. It will remain to be seen whether my defense improves or not - but if it DOESN'T, that's my fault. Everyone's playing with the same rules, sliders, etc. It's not my fault if they're doing something better than I am.

Greener, you're the best commish Madden offers. There's a reason I enjoy playing in your league, and have enjoyed playing in your league for 2+ years. Because of that, I'll always show a level of respect toward you when playing our games (not that I don't show respect toward everyone). If that means not snapping the ball immediately so you can call your plays, then I'll give you ample time. That's just me though. And I'm saying that because quick-snapping doesn't play a role in my offense.

On the flipside, if someone told me to stop running read-option, I'd be very hesitant to comply because the read-option is a major component of my offense, just like how quick-snap is a component of other players' offenses. So I understand where guys like Weasel are coming from. And I can't consider the quick-snap to be cheese because it's an offense real NFL teams utilize. My Patriots for example ran no-huddle quick-snaps all last season. And in Madden, quick-snapping offers zero actual gameplay advantage, unlike nano blitzes and run commit. Quick-snapping just allows less time for defenses to prepare, which IMO is a perfectly viable strategy. It's a staple of football: be better prepared than the other team.

It's a major bummer if your role as commish dramatically declines. Like I said, your the best commish around and thus this league is arguably the best around (in terms of quality). Your enthusiasm for running this league is what sets it apart from others. If that goes away because you've lost interest in Madden, I perfectly understand. It's tough to be committed to something you're not interested in anymore. It's why the leagues always take a hit around Call of Duty season and/or March-July.

But in the end, I just can't agree with banishing quick-snap.

My .02